> ...we asked parents what they thought would happen if two 10-year-olds played in a local park without adults around. Sixty percent thought the children would likely get injured. Half thought they would likely get abducted.
During summer vacation when I was 10 (early 90s) I'd leave the house in the morning and head down to the local park to play basketball or roam the neighborhood with the other kids. We'd ride our bikes to wherever we wanted, and aside from stopping back to eat lunch and dinner, I'd be out until the streetlights went on. I don't recall any major injuries, aside from getting scraped or bumped up from time to time.
I guess I'm about your age, and I remember doing much of the same. Lots of time on my bike with friends, playing hockey or football in the street, "manhunt" at night around the neighborhood (we were too cool to call it hide-and-seek at that age). But I also remember playing video games indoors, and my mother reminding us about how her mother kicked her out of the house when she was young, and how they were outside until the streetlights came on.
Today, I hear a lot of complaining about kids being inside all the time as opposed to prior generations. However, this is anecdotal and maybe my neighborhood is unique, I always see kids out on bikes with basketballs, fishing rods, etc. We are slowly letting our kid on their bike around the neighborhood with friends, and my big fear is getting hit by a car, especially while in a group and everyone pays less attention.
The US is seeming more bonkers day after day. These sorts of stories just don't make sense to me. We have issues in Ireland with children and teenagers going around engaging in anti-social behaviour but there is a balance to be found between these two extremes.
I encounter similar sentiments constantly across the internet. One thing we as humans have a lot of trouble with is understanding the scope of experience that isn't commented on in public forums. When we consider comments on the internet to be a representative sample of reality, we get a very warped view of what might happen to us when we step out the door. This paranoia and anxiety is evident in the proliferation of surveillance technologies, etc., and is completely contrary to the obvious decline in crime rates pretty much everywhere.
At 7 years old my parents would leave for work before I had to go to school, so I had to eat breakfast, dress myself and go to school, locking the door behind me - the walk was across few busy streets which I was told how to cross. Then I would come back before they were home so likewise, I had to let myself in and just wait for them to come back.
I think nowadays if I did that with my son I would have child services called on me.
In the 80’s I’d take the train to another (nearby) city to hang out with my friends, no cell phones, or many for pay phones for that matter, this was at age 11-12. No issue, my parents weren’t worried. I did have an accident once on my bike while in another city and someone picked me up off the street, took me to the hospital and called my parents. Was no big deal.
I had a similar experience and sadly the culture seemed to shift during the 90s so that children were stripped of most of their autonomy. Having not experienced it themselves, many struggle to even imagine the possibilities or benefits.
I will also mention I experienced periods of absolutely crushing boredom at times during the summer when I did not have friends or parents around and had nothing to do but watch daytime television. But I learned from the boredom. It is sad to me that so many today are instead being fed from the drip of constant personalized entertainment that makes it harder to get to the place of complete boredom that ultimately can spark creativity instead of succumbing to learned helplessness.
> But most of the children in our survey said that they aren’t allowed to be out in public at all without an adult. Fewer than half of the 8- and 9-year-olds have gone down a grocery-store aisle alone; more than a quarter aren’t allowed to play unsupervised even in their own front yard.
This is probably a uniquely US problem because after we moved to Europe, we noticed that we see kids without their parents nearby all the time. But, this does not automatically imply that children here spend less time on their phones, we often talk with other parents about it and almost everyone thinks that their kids have too much screen time.
> Since the 1980s, parents have grown more and more afraid that unsupervised time will expose their kids to physical or emotional harm. In another recent Harris Poll, we asked parents what they thought would happen if two 10-year-olds played in a local park without adults around. Sixty percent thought the children would likely get injured. Half thought they would likely get abducted.
> These intuitions don’t even begin to resemble reality. According to Warwick Cairns, the author of How to Live Dangerously, kidnapping in the United States is so rare that a child would have to be outside unsupervised for, on average, 750,000 years before being snatched by a stranger.
I wonder how we ended up in a situation where people think Stranger Danger is this bad. Is it just from TV and the internet inflating the danger to drive views/clicks?
In many areas crime has been trending down but people seem to think things are more dangerous than ever, in general. It baffles me.
I've heard a few things on this. One is that there were a few high profile but very bad cases in the 80s, kids getting kidnapped and trafficked with law enforcement not really willing to even look into it. The odds are infinitesimal, but the cost of the negative outcome is very, very high. Second is kids getting run over by cars. Comparatively that happens all the time. Third is a general breakdown of social connection with people in your neighborhood.
I reckon there's also a feedback loop where places have fewer kids running around for these reasons so you don't want to be among the first to release your kids there especially as a new parent.
Compared to moving in to a place that already has kids running around doing things.
My son recently had to get rabies shots. Well, that was the recommendation because there was a bat in the sleeping quarters of his camp. The probability that the bat had rabies is vanishingly small. Just like the probability that the bat bit him with no marks.
But, you read about rabies (no cure, horrible death), and even if it is a 1-10 million chance and you can do something about it — well, he got the shot (over my protest!).
I think this is similar — child abducted and god knows what happens to them? And it’s your fault as a parent for not supervising? Even a 1-in-10 million chance seems like too much.
It’s not rational, but I think that’s the psychology. It is countered by mentioning the side effects of the vaccine —in this case, identifying the potential harms of over-supervision.
I don't get it either, especially because I don't know any parents who act like this. All the kids in my neighborhood just roam around, including mine.
I wonder if this is another coastal/inland, liberal/conservative rift where the conservatives are for some reason afraid of everything.
The whole stranger danger thing in my view as an adult feels like a downward spiral. It's not like this in many countries.
In the UK it's kind of like - kids don't wander about alone because they might run into baddies, and now adults are afraid to interact with kids because they might be seen as a baddy, and this kind of loops around until no-one is interacting.
Basically, it's like any adult man is seen as a potential child predator, when in reality it's some tiny tiny fraction and in an ideal world we would be able to assume that they get sectioned / locked up quickly so we don't have to worry about it.
Meanwhile I can travel around many parts of Asia, for example, and parents and children alike have no issue interacting with strangers.
I was at a gathering of distant relatives I had never met before. I struck up a conversation with the 15-year old daughter of a cousin whose aunt came running on up with a stern look on her face that made me feel like she thought I was a child molester.
That this was a family gathering I was invited to for honoring my close relative who passed away just made me very sad.
Unfortunately it's not a tiny, tiny fraction. I thought this too once then looked up the stats.
It's horrifying when you find out. It's 1 in 20 children get sexually abused in the UK at the moment for example, and we have loads of checks and safe guards.
And waiting until they get sectioned/locked up, that means someone else has to suffer potentially life-long trauma.
In the UK, about 5% of children have been sexually abused. Nobody wants to risk that happening to their children and it's mostly perpetrated by people known to the children, so trust is understandably at an all time low.
now adults are afraid to interact with kids because they might be seen as a baddy
This only applies to men though, as if all men are predators by default. There are cases where a single adult man was refused entry into a park, mom calling the cops on a single adult man in a park who was minding his own business etc. As you pointed out, this doesn't seem like an issue in Asia, at least not yet.
No wonder men do not want to become teachers. Why risk your freedom, reputation?
I'd blame the media (especially right wing media) whose entire business model is fear mongering about everything/everyone
Anyone know when this all changed? At the age of 5 I used to walk to school alone without me or my parents worrying. That would have been about 1958/9.
It became a thing with advertisements and the evening news prompting parents "Do you know where your children are?" from the late 60s to the 90s. It became the mission of television news and similar to make parents afraid because fear gets attention so horror stories about abducted and abused children were everywhere which resulted in the current situation in America.
Depends on the country, I was in eastern europe over winter and there were kids sledging by themselves between buildings, on the local hill, &c. some weren't much older than 5. That was in the second largest city of the country, not some small village where people know everyone.
I started walking to school at age 7 in the mid 80s. Granted it was only three blocks and there was a crossing guard for the busy street. At my kids school there’s a crossing guard too, but you hardly ever see a kid crossing without their parent. Maybe a 6th grader.
Worth considering how car-centric America is. An 8-year-old is unlikely to have access to a grocery store to which they can independently travel. Once they're at the store with a parent, they'll just travel the aisles together. It's not as though many young children have the funds to make purchasing decisions, anyway.
Can't speak for others, but my 3yr old has definitely gone done an aisle alone. Much to my dismay, but alas, it did happen. These are the things that happen when you don't put your kid in carts and strollers all the time.
It also has the added benefit that he interacts with a lot of strangers while we're about 10ft away. It's good for him to learn that people are usually good.
“What kids told us about how to get off cigarettes”
While I agree there’s a problem with how helicopter-y society is with kids these days, I think it’s ridiculous to expect kids to resist a device that is designed to be addictive. Teams of tens of thousands of the most highly skilled people in the world are laser focused on squeezing every second of attention out of _adults_ let alone kids. We need regulation, full stop. I don’t know what that looks like, but if you’ve ever seen a toddler scrolling TikTok like a zombie you should know what’s at stake.
"always available and will cater to a child’s every whim. But AI will never fulfill children’s deepest desires."
I'm pretty sure it will be able satisfy almost every desire. But I think there's quite a confusion about desire, even deep desire, and deep needs and what's ultimately good for us.
khangaroo|6 months ago
mtalantikite|6 months ago
During summer vacation when I was 10 (early 90s) I'd leave the house in the morning and head down to the local park to play basketball or roam the neighborhood with the other kids. We'd ride our bikes to wherever we wanted, and aside from stopping back to eat lunch and dinner, I'd be out until the streetlights went on. I don't recall any major injuries, aside from getting scraped or bumped up from time to time.
hydrogen7800|6 months ago
Today, I hear a lot of complaining about kids being inside all the time as opposed to prior generations. However, this is anecdotal and maybe my neighborhood is unique, I always see kids out on bikes with basketballs, fishing rods, etc. We are slowly letting our kid on their bike around the neighborhood with friends, and my big fear is getting hit by a car, especially while in a group and everyone pays less attention.
s_dev|6 months ago
https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/31/living/florida-mom-arrest...
The US is seeming more bonkers day after day. These sorts of stories just don't make sense to me. We have issues in Ireland with children and teenagers going around engaging in anti-social behaviour but there is a balance to be found between these two extremes.
uoaei|6 months ago
gambiting|6 months ago
I think nowadays if I did that with my son I would have child services called on me.
insane_dreamer|6 months ago
thefaux|6 months ago
I will also mention I experienced periods of absolutely crushing boredom at times during the summer when I did not have friends or parents around and had nothing to do but watch daytime television. But I learned from the boredom. It is sad to me that so many today are instead being fed from the drip of constant personalized entertainment that makes it harder to get to the place of complete boredom that ultimately can spark creativity instead of succumbing to learned helplessness.
unknown|6 months ago
[deleted]
Rakshith|6 months ago
Jyaif|6 months ago
What would not be survivor bias is you telling us what happened to the kids around you.
kleiba|6 months ago
This is probably a uniquely US problem because after we moved to Europe, we noticed that we see kids without their parents nearby all the time. But, this does not automatically imply that children here spend less time on their phones, we often talk with other parents about it and almost everyone thinks that their kids have too much screen time.
zelphirkalt|6 months ago
kevingadd|6 months ago
> These intuitions don’t even begin to resemble reality. According to Warwick Cairns, the author of How to Live Dangerously, kidnapping in the United States is so rare that a child would have to be outside unsupervised for, on average, 750,000 years before being snatched by a stranger.
I wonder how we ended up in a situation where people think Stranger Danger is this bad. Is it just from TV and the internet inflating the danger to drive views/clicks?
In many areas crime has been trending down but people seem to think things are more dangerous than ever, in general. It baffles me.
techdmn|6 months ago
jader201|6 months ago
I’m not saying you’re wrong, or that I disagree that Stranger Danger is overblown.
But is it possible that part of the reason crime is down is because of Stranger Danger?
I’m not suggesting it is, just that I can’t say with certainty that it isn’t.
hombre_fatal|6 months ago
Compared to moving in to a place that already has kids running around doing things.
amtamt|6 months ago
Is this stat from 1980s or recent? If recent, what may be the likelihood that such stats are the outcome of parents' paranoia?
dr_dshiv|6 months ago
But, you read about rabies (no cure, horrible death), and even if it is a 1-10 million chance and you can do something about it — well, he got the shot (over my protest!).
I think this is similar — child abducted and god knows what happens to them? And it’s your fault as a parent for not supervising? Even a 1-in-10 million chance seems like too much.
It’s not rational, but I think that’s the psychology. It is countered by mentioning the side effects of the vaccine —in this case, identifying the potential harms of over-supervision.
busterarm|6 months ago
[deleted]
jeffbee|6 months ago
I wonder if this is another coastal/inland, liberal/conservative rift where the conservatives are for some reason afraid of everything.
throwaway22032|6 months ago
In the UK it's kind of like - kids don't wander about alone because they might run into baddies, and now adults are afraid to interact with kids because they might be seen as a baddy, and this kind of loops around until no-one is interacting.
Basically, it's like any adult man is seen as a potential child predator, when in reality it's some tiny tiny fraction and in an ideal world we would be able to assume that they get sectioned / locked up quickly so we don't have to worry about it.
Meanwhile I can travel around many parts of Asia, for example, and parents and children alike have no issue interacting with strangers.
assimpleaspossi|6 months ago
That this was a family gathering I was invited to for honoring my close relative who passed away just made me very sad.
mattmanser|6 months ago
It's horrifying when you find out. It's 1 in 20 children get sexually abused in the UK at the moment for example, and we have loads of checks and safe guards.
And waiting until they get sectioned/locked up, that means someone else has to suffer potentially life-long trauma.
closewith|6 months ago
akudha|6 months ago
This only applies to men though, as if all men are predators by default. There are cases where a single adult man was refused entry into a park, mom calling the cops on a single adult man in a park who was minding his own business etc. As you pointed out, this doesn't seem like an issue in Asia, at least not yet.
No wonder men do not want to become teachers. Why risk your freedom, reputation?
I'd blame the media (especially right wing media) whose entire business model is fear mongering about everything/everyone
28304283409234|6 months ago
There's nothing specifically 'American' about this.
jgwil2|6 months ago
zabzonk|6 months ago
colechristensen|6 months ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_you_know_where_your_childre...
bryanlarsen|6 months ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualUK/comments/v8cyi7/map_compar...
lm28469|6 months ago
cameldrv|6 months ago
kasperni|6 months ago
Really? Is this just an American thing?
x187463|6 months ago
richardlblair|6 months ago
It also has the added benefit that he interacts with a lot of strangers while we're about 10ft away. It's good for him to learn that people are usually good.
jeltz|6 months ago
dyeje|6 months ago
While I agree there’s a problem with how helicopter-y society is with kids these days, I think it’s ridiculous to expect kids to resist a device that is designed to be addictive. Teams of tens of thousands of the most highly skilled people in the world are laser focused on squeezing every second of attention out of _adults_ let alone kids. We need regulation, full stop. I don’t know what that looks like, but if you’ve ever seen a toddler scrolling TikTok like a zombie you should know what’s at stake.
jacknews|6 months ago
I'm pretty sure it will be able satisfy almost every desire. But I think there's quite a confusion about desire, even deep desire, and deep needs and what's ultimately good for us.
Capitalism makes the same mistake.