The most amazing thing about this (and another tiny RFID chip that was on HN recently) is not that you can print them on wafers, but that you can cut up the wafers and handle these tiny dies. Imagine you manufactured sugar, but had to manipulate each sugar grain separately.
It thought it was an interesting analogy, so I looked up the size of a typical sugar crystal. It's between 450 and 600 microns. So these chips are 3 to 4 times smaller than that even.
I was in a project with MAN Roland and the university of Dresden at the same time and the most important thing is roll to roll printing. This actually works well if you do not need an external antenna. What was the holy grrail at the time was to print also the antennas, get a decent coupling and then actually also do item and not only batch level tracking of the packaging you would print. Particular Pharma was really interested in terms of anticounterfeiting at low cost.
I have always wondered how this works (along with wire bonding), especially in an economic way.
Chips being cheap makes sense at the lithography / wafer level because sure, you can stamp out thousands of them at once. But once you need to dice them up, bond wires to them, and package them... how on earth do you do that so efficiently that each chip can be sold for fractions of a cent?
If you want the bare chips and not full assembled labels the usual packaging is uncut wafer and cutting out and handling the individual dies is your problem.
Still needs an antenna tuned to the RFID frequency which will be much larger than the chip. It's cool engineering but doesn't mean you can have a working sub-mm tag.
No, but the chip does usually put a cap on the thinness of the whole assembly (e.g. for cards). This means you can have a paper-thin NFC sticker (which we have now, I guess).
Also, you can find previous announcements of Hitachi's μ-Chip series. In 2001, evidently, they put out a 0.4 mm x 0.4 mm chip.
Not being programmable at all and just transmitting a 128 bit number would help get the size down.
Let's compare to a Monza R6 chip that was introduced in 2014, I think. This thing is 0.464 by 0.442 mm according to the datasheet, so quite a bit larger even than the 2001 read-only μ-Chip.
But it it has a two-way communication with the controller, and writable memory. You can enable password protection and such.
The newer M800 series is smaller: 0.247 mm × 0.362 mm, but still larger than the 2005 read-only μ-Chip. There are more features: fatter datasheet. Things like a privacy mode: tag remains radio silent unless it sees a specific 32 bit code from the reader.
You know how you can hold a totally unrelated RFID tag to a door reader and have the reader beep, indicating it has communicated with the tag? This looks like the feature that would prevent that. That could be useful.
> tag remains radio silent unless it sees a specific 32 bit code from the reader.
So you could spray sticky rfid chips into an enemy’s hair, undetectable when scanned, and later on you could send the correct signal to identify enemies in the room. Later their hair would be trimmed, leaving no trace.
Aside from the cool privacy aspect, it seems like it would be cool to:
- Attach to insects to later use a detector to find their homes.
- Coat it and eat it to track your digestion.
- Use it in a miniature tornado model or wind tunnel along with a radio spectrograph to have cool visualizations.
- Embed in paintings, 3D models, clothing labels, and more to verify authenticity, get serial numbers, or track inventory.
- Drop a trail of them behind you so others can follow the trail and find you!
In an early example of conspiracy theories that would eventually envelop social media, I actually remember internet commenters pointing to the previous generation of these as supposed "proof" that the government was embedding RFID chips in banknotes to track people (following a blog article by Alex Jones): https://news.slashdot.org/story/04/03/02/0535225/do-your-20-...
If I worked for VISA's marketing team I'd want to spread FUD like this and "XX% of dollar bills have cocaine on them; protect your children with a youth MasterCard!"
What never cease to amaze me with conspiracy theorists, is that they keep inventing preposterous “conspiracies” while being totally oblivious about the real world. Like why bother putting chips in banknotes when the government could track everyone in real time through their smartphone.
honestly given how long ago that was I'd not be surprised if everything's completely peppered with chips... one from the manufacturer, one from inventory, one from logistic, one from corporate espionage agent, one from foreign adversary state actor sky really is the limit with these.
didn't parmesan put some chips in their cheese too?
Used to develop readers based on similar UHF chips (868 MHz in EU). They were quite expensive compared to printed bar codes those were replacing. Also large. With (folded) antennas we are still talking about 40*10 mm minimum for the label. You can not use them on metal surfaces. Readers nearby will interfere as it works by EM wave backscattering, unlike NFC which is essentially a transformer (with electric field intentionally supressed usually). I think it still is a solution looking for problem. QR codes are cheap and NFC (14 MHz) readers are everywhere.
rwmj|6 months ago
vlabakje90|6 months ago
riedel|6 months ago
ipdashc|6 months ago
Chips being cheap makes sense at the lithography / wafer level because sure, you can stamp out thousands of them at once. But once you need to dice them up, bond wires to them, and package them... how on earth do you do that so efficiently that each chip can be sold for fractions of a cent?
dfox|6 months ago
colechristensen|6 months ago
UomoNeroNero|6 months ago
jsnsnsn|6 months ago
unknown|6 months ago
[deleted]
progbits|6 months ago
stavros|6 months ago
xadhominemx|6 months ago
kazinator|6 months ago
Not being programmable at all and just transmitting a 128 bit number would help get the size down.
Let's compare to a Monza R6 chip that was introduced in 2014, I think. This thing is 0.464 by 0.442 mm according to the datasheet, so quite a bit larger even than the 2001 read-only μ-Chip.
But it it has a two-way communication with the controller, and writable memory. You can enable password protection and such.
The newer M800 series is smaller: 0.247 mm × 0.362 mm, but still larger than the 2005 read-only μ-Chip. There are more features: fatter datasheet. Things like a privacy mode: tag remains radio silent unless it sees a specific 32 bit code from the reader.
You know how you can hold a totally unrelated RFID tag to a door reader and have the reader beep, indicating it has communicated with the tag? This looks like the feature that would prevent that. That could be useful.
sen-wass|6 months ago
So you could spray sticky rfid chips into an enemy’s hair, undetectable when scanned, and later on you could send the correct signal to identify enemies in the room. Later their hair would be trimmed, leaving no trace.
Aside from the cool privacy aspect, it seems like it would be cool to:
- Attach to insects to later use a detector to find their homes.
- Coat it and eat it to track your digestion.
- Use it in a miniature tornado model or wind tunnel along with a radio spectrograph to have cool visualizations.
- Embed in paintings, 3D models, clothing labels, and more to verify authenticity, get serial numbers, or track inventory.
- Drop a trail of them behind you so others can follow the trail and find you!
ashleyn|6 months ago
inanutshellus|6 months ago
littlestymaar|6 months ago
alliao|6 months ago
janice1999|6 months ago
https://www.tirereview.com/michelin-connect-car-tires-rfid-2...
xadhominemx|6 months ago
transcriptase|6 months ago
tiku|6 months ago
paulgerhardt|6 months ago
Hand waiving a lot of the details, each note basically becomes a hardware wallet with some additional features to prevent double spending.
[1] https://offline.cash
net01|6 months ago
notachatbot123|6 months ago
IndrekR|6 months ago
1oooqooq|6 months ago
bitwize|6 months ago
mhb|6 months ago