Investigation into 4chan and its compliance with duties to protect its users

[jacquesm]

It worked quite well in the reverse direction for BetOnSports. Companies tend to underestimate the reach of governments, even governments they are not nominally the subject of.

[rahidz]

4chan's response (through lawyers): https://x.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1956391746029428914

Full text:

"BYRNE & STORM, P.C.

ATTORNEYS-AT-LAW

Re: Statement Regarding Ofcom's Reported Provisional Notice - 4chan Community Support LLC

Byrne & Storm, P.C. ( @ByrneStorm ) and Coleman Law, P.C. ( @RonColeman ) represent 4chan Community Support LLC ("4chan").

According to press reports, the U.K. Office of Communications ("Ofcom") has issued a provisional notice under the Online Safety Act alleging a contravention by 4chan and indicating an intention to impose a penalty of £20,000, plus daily penalties thereafter.

4chan is a United States company, incorporated in Delaware, with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United Kingdom. Any attempt to impose or enforce a penalty against 4chan will be resisted in U.S. federal court.

American businesses do not surrender their First Amendment rights because a foreign bureaucrat sends them an e-mail. Under settled principles of U.S. law, American courts will not enforce foreign penal fines or censorship codes.

If necessary, we will seek appropriate relief in U.S. federal court to confirm these principles.

United States federal authorities have been briefed on this matter.

The Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, was reportedly warned by the White House to cease targeting Americans with U.K. censorship codes (according to reporting in the Telegraph on July 30th).

Despite these warnings, Ofcom continues its illegal campaign of harassment against American technology firms. A political solution to this matter is urgently required and that solution must come from the highest levels of American government.

We call on the Trump Administration to invoke all diplomatic and legal levers available to the United States to protect American companies from extraterritorial censorship mandates.

Our client reserves all rights."

[Barbing]

Thanks - so instead they’ll be sued by someone under those new US state laws that cover sites featuring some % of adult content?

(There was a worrisome blog post someone shared here on HN a few weeks ago.)

[ivan_gammel]

It’s funny. Their “Advertise” page explicitly mentions UK on demographics section (7% of users). Both Advertise and Rules pages explicitly mention local along with US laws. It looks like they actually do business in UK serving ads to UK users and thus should be subject to local laws themselves.

[bloak]

To me that response seems ridiculous in several ways. If they think that UK law doesn't apply to them (which seems very credible) why react at all? Describing what Ofcom is doing, which is, as far as I can tell, just doing the job it was set up to do, as "illegal"? Suggesting that 4chan has some connection to "technology firms"?

If they were going to write anything at all, how about "I fart in your general direction"?

[rr808]

USA is all about free speech because the big tech companies are in USA and behind closed doors do what the US Government tells them. If Meta/Google/Twitter/TikTok were foreign companies they'd likely be banned or regulated to be allowed to operate here.

[mostlysimilar]

The big tech companies are currently lobbying the US government to bring identity verification laws to us at a federal level. They stand to grow even more rich and even more powerful by being the gatekeepers of identity. Imagine if you could only log in to Hacker News by using your Google account.

It will kill whatever is left of small independent communities on the internet, and it's a disaster for free speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAd-OOrdyMw

[userbinator]

TikTok? I know there's a fight going on with it but I believe it's still Chinese owned.

[wakawaka28]

USA is all about free speech because it is literally the first right in the Bill of Rights. Regardless of the extensive infringements we've suffered against our basic human rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, there is a limit to how far they can take it.

[daft_pink]

Pretty sure the USA position has to do with the us constitution. Just saying

[Hizonner]

Somehow I feel like Ofcom and 4chan deserve each other.

[ranger_danger]

Why do they think that organizations who operate completely outside of the UK, accept no money from UK citizens or otherwise do business there, fall within their jurisdiction? I think realistically all that could happen is they tell ISPs to block it.

[amiga-workbench]

They do accept money from UK citizens, you can buy a 4chan pass to skip the captcha. I've done so in the past.

[Retr0id]

> they tell ISPs to block it

Seems likely. And then that won't work, and they'll tell ISPs to block VPN traffic too.

[daft_pink]

Maybe they will say British citizens use it in foreign countries as their loophole. I don’t agree with it and I’m not a lawyer but I’m just predicting their argument.

[ben_w]

> or otherwise do business

If they can be used in the UK, then the same general principle applies here as with pirate radio and over-the-horizon artillery.

The attempt is unlikely to work, but with Trump who knows, so they will probably indeed tell ISPs to block it.

[Jigsy]

Anon must be quaking in their boots.

[boppo1]

4chan will win, american techbros will celebrate, then in a year the US will pass some sort of KYC.

Surveillance is inevitable.

[userbinator]

Only with that defeatist attitude will it be inevitable.

[MikeTheGreat]

genuine question: what is a "KYC"?

[torium]

Disgusting.

If I access 4chan only through tor, will I be safe from these tirants?

[userbinator]

It's been a long time since I've had anything to do with 4chan but I believe Tor was blocked because of how often it was used to post illegal (in the US) content.

[spookie]

You'll just stick out like a sore thumb

[tonfreed]

Great. Now let's see them enforce it.

[bbg2401]

Why has this hysterical hyperbole become the norm when discussing the UK? It feels like a prolonged disinformation attack.