[ryankrage77]

Apple and Google insist their walled gardens are needed for user safety and security, but they can't even catch popular apps violating their own policies. It casts (even more) doubt on their ability to screen for malware, phishing, etc, which are already rampant.

[musicale]

You're not wrong, but Apple and Google probably remember things like the Facebook VPN fiasco of 2018, where Facebook's VPN app was banned from the app store for breaking privacy rules – and then they turned around and abused enterprise app certificates to sidestep the ban.

> By installing Onavo, millions unknowingly granted Facebook full access to their digital activity. App usage, browsing habits, and precise timestamps were silently collected. Facebook VPN didn’t just observe its own users - it tracked behavior across rival platforms like YouTube, Amazon, and Snapchat.

> ... Engineers exploited Onavo’s infrastructure to install a root certificate on phones, masking Snapchat’s servers to decrypt user activity.

This is an obvious security hole that should never have existed, but the fact that Facebook eagerly exploited it, while abusing VPNs for tracking and enterprise certs for sidestepping app store privacy rules, shows the threat landscape.

https://www.analyticsinsight.net/news/when-facebook-used-vpn...

[echelon]

The DOJ/FTC need to end app stores on phones.

Two companies can't own all of computing.

Smartphones are the internet for most people, and two companies have installed comprehensive paywalls and distribution gateways.

It's unnatural how large and complete their monopolies are.

Call your legislator and demand web installs without scare walls and hidden developer flags. With no phony restrictions on app type, technology choice, JIT/runtimes, or UI adherence.

We need complete freedom on mobile.

[ronsor]

I agree, but we shouldn't end app stores entirely. I don't want to go back to the days of Windows in the 2000s where you always had to download random executables from websites to install software.

[999900000999]

>We need complete freedom on mobile.

Technically alternative stores exist on Android.

On IOS you can argue customers are paying for security.

Stopping Billy from downloading a key logger is a corporate choice Apple makes.

If you need to install random binaries from the internet your free to buy android device or a cheap computer.

iOS reduces the attack surface.

[musicale]

> The DOJ/FTC need to end app stores on phones.

Game developers like Epic would certainly like to pay less money to Apple and Google than they pay to Nintendo and Sony (and Microsoft for the Xbox game store), but what's the legal argument for terminating Apple and Google's walled-garden game store businesses? And doesn't Android already allow sideloading?

> Smartphones are the internet for most people, and two companies have installed comprehensive paywalls and distribution gateways.

The web is the internet for most people, and neither Apple nor Google have installed paywalls and distribution gateways for third-party web pages. (Apple does restrict browser engines, but ironically that might be the only thing preventing a chromium monoculture.)

[Gunax]

And yet, people keep buying i Phones. They have a choice. And they are opting in to a closed platform. Likewise with PlayStations and Wiis versus computer games.

Consumers largely don't care and are not interested in esoteric concepts like free software. I would be careful about dictating how things should work.