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Deuter8 | 6 months ago

I literally just want a touchpad with buttons. These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence. They are so much slower, and certain workflows are impossible. I must use an external mouse now with modern laptops.

Why can no laptop manufacturer even make this an option?

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nrp|6 months ago

The Touchpad Module is easy to replace, and the CAD and interface specs we've published on https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-16 are likely detailed enough that anyone can try making one!

JoshTriplett|6 months ago

How much demand would there need to be for you to make one first-party?

How might we go about registering the quantity of that demand?

nine_k|6 months ago

Aside: what if frame.work site had a place for popular vote for features? (With proper registration, etc.) E.g. Digital Ocean has this, and it seems helpful, they follow up on some of the most upvoted feature requests. It's sort of free market research.

cosmic_cheese|6 months ago

Can only speak for myself, but for me the issue with traditional clickpads comes down to their mechanical diving board nature. Even the best ones are not nice to use due to the unavoidable variance in pressure and click feel across the pad that is exacerbated as the size of the pad increases and the mechanism wears over time.

The type that doesn’t move at all and simulates a click with haptics on the other hand I find just fine. MacBooks do this of course but there’s also a few x86 laptops equipped with pads like that.

So in my opinion, mechanical clickpads should disappear entirely and laptops should offer two options: a static haptic clickpad and traditional trackpad with buttons.

jsmith45|6 months ago

Honestly, I'm here half wondering why we need the click at all. One finger drag for move, quick one finger tap for left click, tap and half for click and drag, two finger tap, two finger drag for scroll covers all the common interactions.

Which isn't to say I don't use the click functionality at all. I will subconciously use it in some scenarios, but not in others, but if it were missing I would adapt very quickly, since I use the gesture alternatives so often, that I would automatically fall back to them.

I suppose I need the click for some obscure interactions like right click drag, but honestly except in games I've almost never seen that used. My surface laptop as currently configured literally wouldn't even allow some other rare ones like hold button and scroll (I'd need to turn on right side scroll-wheel for that) and I've never even noticed the absence of that ability until I tried it just now.

iknowstuff|6 months ago

I’ve never missed having buttons on the macbook trackpad lol

How are they slower/impossible?

JoshTriplett|6 months ago

I've missed them every time I've been in the unfortunate position of dealing with someone else's macOS system. It's all a matter of what you're accustomed to.

ksec|6 months ago

Problem is none of the trackpad on PC are as good as the Apple trackpad

jayd16|6 months ago

I assume some gestures are simply not possible. Like click-to-drag and scroll simultaneously. Not every app handles gutter-hover-to-scroll in a usable way. On a mouse or a pad with buttons, you can keep the left click held down and scroll with the wheel or gesture. Uni-pads make this impossible.

aaomidi|6 months ago

Because the macbook trackpad is good.

Aurornis|6 months ago

> Why can no laptop manufacturer even make this an option?

Because it’s a variation of both the case and the internals that brings a higher failure rate, more dust ingress, more moving parts, and, most importantly, would rarely be chosen.

> They are so much slower,

They are objectively faster because you can click anywhere rather than moving a finger to a button or keeping one finger always on the button.

kelnos|6 months ago

> They are objectively faster because you can click anywhere rather than moving a finger to a button or keeping one finger always on the button.

I have no problem with the current trackpad (and prefer it), but when I used a trackpad with dedicated buttons, i'd use my index finger to track and my thumb to click, so I wouldn't have to move my fingers around at all.

Regardless, why do we feel the need to argue with people's personal preferences? You don't have to agree with someone on this. It's fine. People can prefer other things.

MobiusHorizons|6 months ago

Some people used to use a separate finger like the thumb to click, which is pretty fast.

rootnod3|6 months ago

I feel you. An option with a trackpoint would be a dream.

soperj|6 months ago

Thinkpads still have buttons. I don't ever use the trackpad, just the nub and buttons.

tracker1|6 months ago

Some Dell business models have them as well... I used to be a fan, but at this point I prefer the Mac touchpad experience. The closest I've felt are Razor and a few higher end Chromebooks (that I won' t buy). I'm hoping other mfgs get a lot closer to the Apple touchpad experience as patents start to expire in the next few years.

There's a few that are close, but still not close enough. Also, Mac slightly changed their default settings (regarding the physical click behavior), I never recall what it is but only that I change it back when starting out on a new machine.

SoftTalker|6 months ago

Best keyboard/mouse implementation ever. I use a thinkpad keyboard on my desktop. A separate mouse feels so klunky by comparison.

rustyminnow|6 months ago

I would be all in on the nub if mine didn't have such terrible drift. Trackpad with top buttons beats any other trackpad though.

JoshTriplett|6 months ago

I use the touchpad together with the buttons, on my ThinkPad, and rarely use the stick.

criddell|6 months ago

What workflows are impossible with a trackpad but possible with a mouse?

diggan|6 months ago

With the trackpads that have built-in clicks in the pad itself, I've always found it really difficult to drag-and-drop stuff if it has to be pulled longer than a few pixels. Just moving and pressing against a surface seems to not be a super accurate movement in general.

Deuter8|6 months ago

While I prefer an external mouse, I can manage ECAD and some 3D modelling if I have buttons. It's great in a pinch. I'm getting nauseous even imagining it with a clickpad.

gloxkiqcza|6 months ago

Can’t you map a keyboard button as a mouse click? I agree it’s not the best workaround but it should be a functional one, right?

Deuter8|6 months ago

My current plan is to retrofit buttons to my clickpad. Earlier this week I ordered a few different styles of touchpad buttons from AliExpress to test. I'll build a custom little USB HID device for it once I've picked my favourite one.

I don't think I can rely on laptop manufacturers to buck the clickpad trend any time soon, so I'll do it myself.

IshKebab|6 months ago

> These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence.

But only because they are all worse than Apple's version. What you really want isn't a touchpad with buttons, is a "clickpad" that doesn't suck. And as far as I know only Apple makes them.

dismalaf|6 months ago

ThinkPads still have buttons, or do you require buttons specifically under the touchpad?