We have an incredible capacity for denial and self-deception. For years, I would periodically drop into severe depression; I would stop sleeping, stop eating, stop answering my phone or email. I wouldn't leave my room for weeks on end; on a few occasions I was so successfully reclusive that people worried that I disappeared or died called the police to investigate. A few times I almost did die; I think the biggest reason I never committed suicide was that I didn't have the willpower for even that.
Years. Call it 6, with bouts every 8 months. One semester of 'A's, one semester of 'F's.
Of course this caused me to fail classes and lost me friends, opportunities and respect. But every time I recovered I thought to myself "Wow, that was awful. Glad I'll never do that again!" I had to lose my fiancée and my funding in grad school before I finally accepted to the fact that this might be a problem. That there might be a cause other than being lazy. Because, you know, laziness makes people curl up in an empty bathtub and cry for 24 hours. That's normal, right?
Thanks to Wil for posting this. It's important to reach out to sufferers as well as their friends and family. It takes a lot to recognize when you or someone you know has a problem, even when in retrospect it's blindingly obvious.
I think the biggest reason I never committed suicide was that I didn't have the willpower for even that.
One of the most dangerous periods for depressed people is shortly after they start treatment. They are still depressed, but suddenly have the energy to commit suicide, and a certain fraction of them do.
I had the same problem. My depression had been latent since early HS but it really manifested when I began college, and my grades were horrible as a result despite having been a model student until then(well, until the last year of HS; college only hastened its development). I'm 29 and I've since gotten treatment but the effect on my professional development has been incredibly damaging. It's less a stumble out of the gate than a foot shot.
I know intellectually that I've achieved as much - or possibly more - than my typical peer because I've worked through my problems and traumas and come out the other end alive and healthy, but they're still the ones with the comparatively advanced careers, living in nicer cities, and taking care of their young families while I'm still working saw jobs in the midwest and living, alone, in a studio apartment.
But I'm alive, and I'm able to finally live a normal life, which is priceless.
Knowing you "have a problem" doesn't mean you or anyone understands the problem or what to do about it. And even if you know what to do, doesn't mean you can do it either, the psychological, social or just practical barriers can be impossible to climb.
Medication has a statistical significant effect, but is often marginal at best, and most of the effect is placebo.
And this assumes an accurate diagnosis, and don't count on that, I have had the head of psychiatric care of a major European capital say to me that the science of psychiatric diagnosis is basically worthless, I wouldn't go that far (the split between research and academia and practice is also a huge problem), but is nowhere as simple as some like to make it seem.
People and lives are often much more complex than that and much more significant factors.
Doctors can also do much more harm than good, locking people up in horribly depressing kafkian institutions because they are suicidal is one of the most insane things I have seen in my life.
Imagine what it feels like being locked up against your will, treated almost like an animal, when you have done nothing to harm anyone, and being told it is "for your own good".
I am rather disappointed by much of the discussion in these comments.
The HN community has always taken pride in being careful, analytical and data-led. If someone were to advocate an unproven cancer therapy based on anecdote, they would rightly be harshly criticised.
The evidence base for SSRIs is extremely poor. The most favourable metastudies indicate only a very mild benefit, similar to that of many non-drug interventions like exercise or conversation with friends. Other metastudies show only a weak effect in the most severely depressed patients. There is known to be a very serious problem of publication bias, with major statistical irregularities indicative of the non-publication of unfavourable trials.
We feel confident in making statements about the nature of depression, but in truth we know almost nothing with any degree of confidence. The long-held serotonin hypothesis has proven to be completely baseless and there is no good evidence that depression has a neurochemical etiology. fMRI data is often used to make the case that depression has neurological rather than psychological origin, but this is very poor reasoning; The brain is not merely a passive vessel for the mind and environmental influences can cause substantial structural changes to the brain, as seen in chess players, sportsmen and myriad other groups.
It is entirely possible that the idea of depression is itself a cause of depression, in much the same way that the western presentation anorexia nervosa has been imported into Chinese culture and is slowly replacing the far more common indigenous eating disorder, which presented as idiopathic digestive problems rather than a psychological aversion to food based in body image. It is entirely plausible that the belief that low mood is a medical disorder which cannot be ameliorated by the patient is itself pathological.
I believe that the only statement we can make about depression with any confidence is this: We aren't sure if "clinical depression" describes a phenomena that can be meaningfully thought of and treated as a disease, but we do know that if you do something that you believe will make you feel better, you will feel better.
I'd also recommend reading psychologist Martin Seligman's book "What You Can Change and What You Can't", which covers a variety of mental health issues from sexual fetishes to fear of spiders to schizophrenia, and the treatment options available for each.
Cognitive behavioral therapy teaches people to recognize negative thoughts ("I failed the test because I'm stupid"), dispute the thought ("If I'm stupid, how did I get an A in math last week"), and propose alternative explanations that are transitory or shift the blame to an external source ("The teacher was in a bad mood when he graded the test/I didn't study hard enough").
It's been shown in studies to be as effective as drugs, and more lasting (if you stop taking the drugs, the sadness might come back).
It's an alternative - it might not work for everyone, the OP mentions he had trouble with therapy and I'm glad he is finally doing better.
My guess is that's just how slim people tell fat people that laziness got them fat and so they should do more exercise, i.e. people that never suffered from a certain condition giving advice to people suffering from that condition.
"I failed the test because I'm stupid" - that's just how I felt when I got rejected after an onsite interview with a certain company that's renowned for its hiring standards that yield many false negatives. Thoughts going through my head, like "I was unlucky" or that "I came unprepared", had no effect.
You know how one partner tells the other on the verge of a breakup "it's not you, it's me"? Did that line ever work in the history of man-kind?
The mind is like an onion, having many layers. You can only control the first layer and hope that your actions will cause a reverberation in the layers below. And if you strongly feel a certain way, sometimes there's no stopping it, unless enough time passes to forget about it or make it seem less important (I guess that's why we forget things).
The teacher was in a bad mood when he graded the test
I'm seeing people throw blame all the time, precisely because it's easier to cope with failure. But it's not healthy to pass the blame, unless you have concrete proof that the teacher's mood was in bad shape and that her mood indeed had an effect on the grade. I'm not seeing this as being good advice. Sooner or later you'll start thinking the whole world is against you, when it's a lot better to recognize your own mistakes and not blow the failure out of proportions.
It's also healthy to recognize that maybe you're not as smart as everybody kept telling you since you were in kindergarten, and that in the real world wit is not a substitute for experience and hard work.
I'll preface this with the fact that I know that people will see me as being cold or just generally not agree with my opinion but I am going to share it with you all anyways.
I have experienced this first hand. I have attempted suicide twice in my life and have gotten help for it. Because of my experience, I think I have come out of it with a different view which is this:
Suicide is somebody's choice and theirs only to make. Does it affect others? Yes, of course. But I still believe that it is up to the individual to make that choice. I remember thinking after my attempts and hearing how it is a "selfish way out" that the my family too, was being selfish, for I was suffering and medication and therapy just wasn't doing anything yet they selfishly wanted me in their lives just as I wanted to end my life and stop all of the pain.
A few other things that I just want to throw out there because I'm experience an odd flood of emotion. The assumption that suicide is bad is solely based on the notion that life is better than what lies beyond, which is something we just don't know. Also, people call suicide the cowards way out or giving up. I just don't see that. To me, it is just not delaying the inevitable. We all die. It is a fact.
Forgive the disposable account, I am a long-time registered user with high karma but even I think that once in a while there is a topic that requires anonymity (or at least further pseudonymity).
I do not feel I suffer from depression, yet I think of suicide frequently. Frequently as in, once every couple of days to several times a day, for as long as I remember.
Frequently these are just passing thoughts, of how I might do it, or of an opportunity not taken. Other times these are serious considerations and the weighing up of why not to. I don't pause on "why to" as I can answer that instantly every time.
Ultimately I conclude every time that life isn't worth living. It never has been, and never will be. But yet, to experience it is a gift and I should experience as much of it as possible before the end. To experience life is the only reason I can think of to live.
I always remember Camus, I always am mindful of the Myth of Sisyphus.
<cite>
The Myth of Sisyphus (1943) – If there is a single non-fiction work that can be
considered an essential or fundamental statement of Camus’ philosophy, it is
this extended essay on the ethics of suicide (eventually translated and repackaged
for American publication in 1955). For it is here that Camus formally introduces
and fully articulates his most famous idea, the concept of the Absurd, and his
equally famous image of life as a Sisyphean struggle. From its provocative
opening sentence (“There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and
that is suicide”) to its stirring, paradoxical conclusion (“The struggle itself
toward the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus
happy”), the book has something interesting and challenging on nearly every
page and is shot through with brilliant aphorisms and insights. In the end, Camus
rejects suicide: the Absurd must not be evaded either by religion (“philosophical
suicide”) or by annihilation (“physical suicide”); the task of living should not
merely be accepted, it must be embraced.
</cite>
The problem I have is that I feel I already know that one day I will be at peace with the ridiculousness of living, and reject the "to experience" argument. One day dying will win the argument, and it only needs to win once.
one in four adults suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year
This is something that frightens me. What is a "diagnosable mental disorder"? I'm willing to bet this statement was far from true 50 or a 100 years ago. Not because I think people got more depressed or anxious, but rather because we're looking harder to "diagnose" things.
I think there's a big danger, especially in psychological afflictions, to always "look for" problems with yourself.
This may be a cultural thing as well. Until I came to the US (I'm from Germany), I never asked myself "Am I depressed?", "Is this what depression feels like?" when I was aving a down day. I also never considered that I may have/have had ADD now/as a kid but now people tell me I should "get that checked out" all the time.
One thing that helped me was additional vitamin D. I did some quick research and found out that one must be careful, as overdosing will bring back the same symptoms, but after adding an additional 1000 IUs a day, I am not getting as depressed as I used to.
Please note that my depression was minor, more of the "there is too much going on, I can't get started on anything, I don't feel like working, I think I will just browse something new on the net" day after day, sometimes for weeks at a time. Also, I am convinced everyone's system is different, so tread carefully and consult professional medical advice, where appropriate.
I also had recently (4 years ago) moved to way northern California, US, along the coast, so I get Oregon's type of weather (much more rain, overcast). Sun was no longer so prevalent, and very much may have had a bearing on this. YMMV.
Until about 2 years ago I had a long period of heavy depression. At that time, thoughts about suicide did cross my mind often. This depression was partly caused due to a post traumatic stress syndrome.
In his article Wil states that he wasn't very interested in using medicine and I shared the same thought. I did went to a shrink though and eventually we agreed that instead of medication I would go outside more, eat more healthy, occasionally practice a bit of sports and visit friends more often. These things might all seem very basic, but when in a depression it's really very hard to get oneself as far as to actually make these changes. While all of this helps, my major issue was finding a new purpose in life. But I do feel making these changes in my habits did help me find this new purpose.
Now I live in a country with a very good social system, so I can imagine it's easier to make those changes in life compared to countries where it's very hard to survive when not having a job. I've had 2 jobless periods of about a year during my depression which lasted in total for around 7 years.
I'm curious, as I see quite a few post like this regarding coping with depression and suicide, are these very common problems among the HN/tech/startup community? Is it in some way more prevalent in this community vs other fields? Or are these posts for the most part shared and voted up as a sort of public service announcement (maybe not the best way to say it but not sure how to phrase it)?
And I don't mean it to come off as somehow insensitive because if it even helped one person avoid suicide then it's more valuable than most any other posts... Just very curious as I've not personally seen this from my own relationships in this scene.
Brain scientists somehow have ways of measuring unhappiness -- don't ask me how -- and one the biggest instances they ever find isn't divorce or even death, it's getting a big amount of money and then losing it. This may be related to start-up cultures.
What I'm not able to reconcile is if the despair and anxiety resulting from nihilism is something that should be treated. I'm a staunch believer in existential nihilism (and hence believe life is inherently purposeless and pointless), so time to time it gives a sharp tinge of sadness on the lines of _why am I existing at all_. It's not a suicidal feeling, but very close to it. I have (rightly, so) convinced myself of all sorts of Nihilistic conclusions such as subjective morality, consciousness and free will as not being special rather an illusion and byproduct of evolution, cosmos being huge and indifferent, etc. etc. This belief definitely gives freedom in the sense that you aren't bound by any assumptions, so you can do whatever you desire. But it also leads to slight, nagging, constant sense of unhappiness.
Running a startup being a Nihilist is sort of a difficult task, and once I had blogged about here: http://paraschopra.com/blog/personal/startups-and-nihilism-d... -- I tend to agree with Camus on his Absurdist stance, but treating for having such a correct, depressing stance is something I still haven't come to terms with.
Any thoughts on what do mental disorders really mean, or what does treatment of those disorders really mean? My current opinion is that if happiness means blocking or ignoring certain truths (via medication or treatment), then that is preferable. But I'm still undecided on that.
Your despair and anxiety don't result from your philosophical beliefs, which should be trivially obvious since lots of people share your beliefs and do not regularly suffer from despair and anxiety.
You can feel how you please, but you aren't being faced with the binary choice of "believe X and be sad" or "disbelieve X and be happy." You also have the choice of "change whatever weird thing in your head correlates a belief in X with sadness." Feel free to just fix the unhappiness and leave your philosophy alone.
Ultimately nihilism is non-prescriptive as to how you should behave or feel. Under nihilism you can very easily turn "Why Bother?" into "Why Not?", or "Why do I exist?" into "Why would I not exist?" - because all are meaningless questions.
At least this is how I deal with the fatalist aspect. Live you life as you would "normally", take the actions you think are best and do what gives you emotional fulfilment. Nihilism is only a weight if you secretly want meaning (and are somehow disappointed that your actions are meaningless). Happiness isn't blocking certain truths, it is just a biological state. If you truly do not believe or wish for a meaning then Nihilism sets you free.
What if the universe is suffused with meaning and purpose by a just and benevolent god, and you have just accidentally fallen through the cracks? How would you know?
In other words, what is the falsifiable hypothesis of nihilism? If you cannot answer that, your nihilism is just so much mystical gobbledygook.
I suffer from "mild" anxiety, which has lead to some depression. At times, it's hard to go to venues where there are huge amounts of strangers or even the office at big corporation X (it's not so great whenever you feel like you're choking); but I power through it somehow.
I can't get rid of it, but I've found that heavy exercise (ideally both weights and cardio) really helps to mitigate both the depression and anxiety.
I only recently finished having suicidal thoughts. In fact, I had them 4 days ago. It's frightening, and disturbing. I have two small children and my wife loves me. Still the thoughts come. Awful.
Well I lived in Fiji for a good portion of my life. Those that only lived and ever lived in Fiji considered depression as a condition formed from lack of exercise or not knowing God. I'm making a very generalised statement but this is based off my interactions with members of my extended family. When I did go and see a doctor about depression, I was given Prozac. When I compare things to New Zealand, where I currently live, I find people here are more considerate of depression. My university here has been of great help, helping me get in touch with the right doctors. The professors here acknowledge my depression as a legitimate illness unlike Fiji where many of my professors simply dismissed me as lazy.
I'm currently on Effexor and having a very hard time but I'm glad here in NZ I can find people to talk to, even if they are paid to talk to me.
They have larger life threatening problems to deal with like earning their livelihood. There are always people around you and even if they can't help you they keep you distracted.
I really don't want to imply I'm jealous of these people's life conditions, but I've noticed that the more not-intellectually taxing tasks I have to do, the less I notice I'm depressed. If I would be fighting for my life everyday, I might not ever notice I'm not OK. I think a simpler life might do me well too.
I had and have only mild depression and anxiety from time to time and I may sound ignorant/stupid now but for me starting to read and practice stoic philosophy really helped to keep a calmer and more rational outlook for my life. It does a good job for me to not feel worthless and to keep a good spirit in spite of everything falling apart.
The words of epictetus and marcus aurelius made a difference for me.
I've also saw a therapist for cognitive therapy at that time and I've found that reading the stoics helped me with the therapy.
But: It is not an alternative for seeking profession help and I'm just a single biased data-point.
I'll add myself as a second data point. Understanding the stoics has helped me as well.
The ancient stoics seem to have stumbled upon important insights into our nature and how to be happy. A good introductory book to stoicism is William Irvine's "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy".
Interestingly the founder of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, Albert Ellis, "credited Epictetus with providing a foundation for his system of psychotherapy".
Came here to post this, in this lecture he makes the point that major depression is the most devastating disease you can suffer. He also compares major depression to diabetes in that you can't will yourself out of either one.
So no, depression doesn't lie any more than a healthy brain, it just tells you the truths and lies you don't want to hear.
Of course, I agree with the article that if you are unwell you should seek help. But I had this thought once: the doctor who prescribes you medication optimizes for a different thing than you may want to. Say there are two possibilities (numbers completely made up)
(1) Not taking the medication, which results in a suicide 5% of the time and getting over it on your own and a perfectly happy life in 95%.
(2) Going with the medication and being not suicidal but slightly unhappy for the rest of your life with 100% chance.
Then your doctor's incentives are such that he'll certainly choose (2), but that's not what you might choose if you were aware of the options.
Yesterday, comedian Chris Gethard wrote a long and poignant letter to an anonymous fan wrestling with depression and suicidal thoughts. A very interesting read:
We live in a society where mental problems are considered to be a spiritual problem, not a medical one. The brain is an organ and organs malfunction. I think the younger people see this and are more likely to get the help and medication they need. It seems to be the +60 year olds who will go to their priest instead of their doctor.
[+] [-] huggah|13 years ago|reply
Years. Call it 6, with bouts every 8 months. One semester of 'A's, one semester of 'F's.
Of course this caused me to fail classes and lost me friends, opportunities and respect. But every time I recovered I thought to myself "Wow, that was awful. Glad I'll never do that again!" I had to lose my fiancée and my funding in grad school before I finally accepted to the fact that this might be a problem. That there might be a cause other than being lazy. Because, you know, laziness makes people curl up in an empty bathtub and cry for 24 hours. That's normal, right?
Thanks to Wil for posting this. It's important to reach out to sufferers as well as their friends and family. It takes a lot to recognize when you or someone you know has a problem, even when in retrospect it's blindingly obvious.
[+] [-] btilly|13 years ago|reply
One of the most dangerous periods for depressed people is shortly after they start treatment. They are still depressed, but suddenly have the energy to commit suicide, and a certain fraction of them do.
My wife lost a cousin that way. :-(
[+] [-] diffeomorph|13 years ago|reply
I know intellectually that I've achieved as much - or possibly more - than my typical peer because I've worked through my problems and traumas and come out the other end alive and healthy, but they're still the ones with the comparatively advanced careers, living in nicer cities, and taking care of their young families while I'm still working saw jobs in the midwest and living, alone, in a studio apartment.
But I'm alive, and I'm able to finally live a normal life, which is priceless.
[+] [-] luriel|13 years ago|reply
Medication has a statistical significant effect, but is often marginal at best, and most of the effect is placebo.
And this assumes an accurate diagnosis, and don't count on that, I have had the head of psychiatric care of a major European capital say to me that the science of psychiatric diagnosis is basically worthless, I wouldn't go that far (the split between research and academia and practice is also a huge problem), but is nowhere as simple as some like to make it seem.
People and lives are often much more complex than that and much more significant factors.
Doctors can also do much more harm than good, locking people up in horribly depressing kafkian institutions because they are suicidal is one of the most insane things I have seen in my life.
Imagine what it feels like being locked up against your will, treated almost like an animal, when you have done nothing to harm anyone, and being told it is "for your own good".
[+] [-] borplk|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chmike|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdietrich|13 years ago|reply
The HN community has always taken pride in being careful, analytical and data-led. If someone were to advocate an unproven cancer therapy based on anecdote, they would rightly be harshly criticised.
The evidence base for SSRIs is extremely poor. The most favourable metastudies indicate only a very mild benefit, similar to that of many non-drug interventions like exercise or conversation with friends. Other metastudies show only a weak effect in the most severely depressed patients. There is known to be a very serious problem of publication bias, with major statistical irregularities indicative of the non-publication of unfavourable trials.
We feel confident in making statements about the nature of depression, but in truth we know almost nothing with any degree of confidence. The long-held serotonin hypothesis has proven to be completely baseless and there is no good evidence that depression has a neurochemical etiology. fMRI data is often used to make the case that depression has neurological rather than psychological origin, but this is very poor reasoning; The brain is not merely a passive vessel for the mind and environmental influences can cause substantial structural changes to the brain, as seen in chess players, sportsmen and myriad other groups.
It is entirely possible that the idea of depression is itself a cause of depression, in much the same way that the western presentation anorexia nervosa has been imported into Chinese culture and is slowly replacing the far more common indigenous eating disorder, which presented as idiopathic digestive problems rather than a psychological aversion to food based in body image. It is entirely plausible that the belief that low mood is a medical disorder which cannot be ameliorated by the patient is itself pathological.
I believe that the only statement we can make about depression with any confidence is this: We aren't sure if "clinical depression" describes a phenomena that can be meaningfully thought of and treated as a disease, but we do know that if you do something that you believe will make you feel better, you will feel better.
[+] [-] kevinburke|13 years ago|reply
Cognitive behavioral therapy teaches people to recognize negative thoughts ("I failed the test because I'm stupid"), dispute the thought ("If I'm stupid, how did I get an A in math last week"), and propose alternative explanations that are transitory or shift the blame to an external source ("The teacher was in a bad mood when he graded the test/I didn't study hard enough").
It's been shown in studies to be as effective as drugs, and more lasting (if you stop taking the drugs, the sadness might come back).
It's an alternative - it might not work for everyone, the OP mentions he had trouble with therapy and I'm glad he is finally doing better.
[+] [-] bad_user|13 years ago|reply
My guess is that's just how slim people tell fat people that laziness got them fat and so they should do more exercise, i.e. people that never suffered from a certain condition giving advice to people suffering from that condition.
"I failed the test because I'm stupid" - that's just how I felt when I got rejected after an onsite interview with a certain company that's renowned for its hiring standards that yield many false negatives. Thoughts going through my head, like "I was unlucky" or that "I came unprepared", had no effect.
You know how one partner tells the other on the verge of a breakup "it's not you, it's me"? Did that line ever work in the history of man-kind?
The mind is like an onion, having many layers. You can only control the first layer and hope that your actions will cause a reverberation in the layers below. And if you strongly feel a certain way, sometimes there's no stopping it, unless enough time passes to forget about it or make it seem less important (I guess that's why we forget things).
I'm seeing people throw blame all the time, precisely because it's easier to cope with failure. But it's not healthy to pass the blame, unless you have concrete proof that the teacher's mood was in bad shape and that her mood indeed had an effect on the grade. I'm not seeing this as being good advice. Sooner or later you'll start thinking the whole world is against you, when it's a lot better to recognize your own mistakes and not blow the failure out of proportions.It's also healthy to recognize that maybe you're not as smart as everybody kept telling you since you were in kindergarten, and that in the real world wit is not a substitute for experience and hard work.
[+] [-] jetti|13 years ago|reply
I have experienced this first hand. I have attempted suicide twice in my life and have gotten help for it. Because of my experience, I think I have come out of it with a different view which is this:
Suicide is somebody's choice and theirs only to make. Does it affect others? Yes, of course. But I still believe that it is up to the individual to make that choice. I remember thinking after my attempts and hearing how it is a "selfish way out" that the my family too, was being selfish, for I was suffering and medication and therapy just wasn't doing anything yet they selfishly wanted me in their lives just as I wanted to end my life and stop all of the pain.
A few other things that I just want to throw out there because I'm experience an odd flood of emotion. The assumption that suicide is bad is solely based on the notion that life is better than what lies beyond, which is something we just don't know. Also, people call suicide the cowards way out or giving up. I just don't see that. To me, it is just not delaying the inevitable. We all die. It is a fact.
[+] [-] drumdance|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway120912|13 years ago|reply
I do not feel I suffer from depression, yet I think of suicide frequently. Frequently as in, once every couple of days to several times a day, for as long as I remember.
Frequently these are just passing thoughts, of how I might do it, or of an opportunity not taken. Other times these are serious considerations and the weighing up of why not to. I don't pause on "why to" as I can answer that instantly every time.
Ultimately I conclude every time that life isn't worth living. It never has been, and never will be. But yet, to experience it is a gift and I should experience as much of it as possible before the end. To experience life is the only reason I can think of to live.
I always remember Camus, I always am mindful of the Myth of Sisyphus.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/camus/
The problem I have is that I feel I already know that one day I will be at peace with the ridiculousness of living, and reject the "to experience" argument. One day dying will win the argument, and it only needs to win once.[+] [-] jhuckestein|13 years ago|reply
This is something that frightens me. What is a "diagnosable mental disorder"? I'm willing to bet this statement was far from true 50 or a 100 years ago. Not because I think people got more depressed or anxious, but rather because we're looking harder to "diagnose" things.
I think there's a big danger, especially in psychological afflictions, to always "look for" problems with yourself.
This may be a cultural thing as well. Until I came to the US (I'm from Germany), I never asked myself "Am I depressed?", "Is this what depression feels like?" when I was aving a down day. I also never considered that I may have/have had ADD now/as a kid but now people tell me I should "get that checked out" all the time.
[+] [-] raintrees|13 years ago|reply
Please note that my depression was minor, more of the "there is too much going on, I can't get started on anything, I don't feel like working, I think I will just browse something new on the net" day after day, sometimes for weeks at a time. Also, I am convinced everyone's system is different, so tread carefully and consult professional medical advice, where appropriate.
I also had recently (4 years ago) moved to way northern California, US, along the coast, so I get Oregon's type of weather (much more rain, overcast). Sun was no longer so prevalent, and very much may have had a bearing on this. YMMV.
[+] [-] luwes|13 years ago|reply
It makes sense to add this to your diet if you're working behind a desk indoors most of the day.
[+] [-] gfunk911|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wsc981|13 years ago|reply
In his article Wil states that he wasn't very interested in using medicine and I shared the same thought. I did went to a shrink though and eventually we agreed that instead of medication I would go outside more, eat more healthy, occasionally practice a bit of sports and visit friends more often. These things might all seem very basic, but when in a depression it's really very hard to get oneself as far as to actually make these changes. While all of this helps, my major issue was finding a new purpose in life. But I do feel making these changes in my habits did help me find this new purpose.
Now I live in a country with a very good social system, so I can imagine it's easier to make those changes in life compared to countries where it's very hard to survive when not having a job. I've had 2 jobless periods of about a year during my depression which lasted in total for around 7 years.
[+] [-] seunosewa|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kahawe|13 years ago|reply
From own experience, I can say this is nothing short of magic and voodoo but it does work.
[+] [-] ftwinnovations|13 years ago|reply
And I don't mean it to come off as somehow insensitive because if it even helped one person avoid suicide then it's more valuable than most any other posts... Just very curious as I've not personally seen this from my own relationships in this scene.
[+] [-] lotharbot|13 years ago|reply
These are very common problems among humanity.
It's good that this community is willing to talk about them so openly.
[+] [-] kondro|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danielweber|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paraschopra|13 years ago|reply
Running a startup being a Nihilist is sort of a difficult task, and once I had blogged about here: http://paraschopra.com/blog/personal/startups-and-nihilism-d... -- I tend to agree with Camus on his Absurdist stance, but treating for having such a correct, depressing stance is something I still haven't come to terms with.
Any thoughts on what do mental disorders really mean, or what does treatment of those disorders really mean? My current opinion is that if happiness means blocking or ignoring certain truths (via medication or treatment), then that is preferable. But I'm still undecided on that.
[+] [-] mquander|13 years ago|reply
You can feel how you please, but you aren't being faced with the binary choice of "believe X and be sad" or "disbelieve X and be happy." You also have the choice of "change whatever weird thing in your head correlates a belief in X with sadness." Feel free to just fix the unhappiness and leave your philosophy alone.
[+] [-] orangeduck|13 years ago|reply
At least this is how I deal with the fatalist aspect. Live you life as you would "normally", take the actions you think are best and do what gives you emotional fulfilment. Nihilism is only a weight if you secretly want meaning (and are somehow disappointed that your actions are meaningless). Happiness isn't blocking certain truths, it is just a biological state. If you truly do not believe or wish for a meaning then Nihilism sets you free.
[+] [-] davidtanner|13 years ago|reply
I offer a suggestion for an antidote for your philosophy:
Carefully read as much of this website as you can: http://csp.org/index.html
Then you will have the knowledge to make an informed choice regarding the use of an entheogenic drug. Good luck!
[+] [-] Daniel_Newby|13 years ago|reply
In other words, what is the falsifiable hypothesis of nihilism? If you cannot answer that, your nihilism is just so much mystical gobbledygook.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] jacques_chester|13 years ago|reply
Until you have the medication, you don't realise how completely you've stood in the shadow of depression for your whole life.
[+] [-] chaostheory|13 years ago|reply
I can't get rid of it, but I've found that heavy exercise (ideally both weights and cardio) really helps to mitigate both the depression and anxiety.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression-and-exercise/MH0...
[+] [-] chris_wot|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulerdos|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] navs|13 years ago|reply
I'm currently on Effexor and having a very hard time but I'm glad here in NZ I can find people to talk to, even if they are paid to talk to me.
[+] [-] muriithi|13 years ago|reply
The sad thing is that people rarely talk about mental health issues[1].
There is also a shortage of psychiatrists and when they are found most people cannot afford them.
[1] http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/31/health/frank-njenga-mental...
[+] [-] rhplus|13 years ago|reply
http://www.granta.com/New-Writing/People-Dont-Get-Depressed-...
[via http://www.metafilter.com/119650/You-must-always-keep-an-ope... ]
[+] [-] donniezazen|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kmm|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hack_edu|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nisa|13 years ago|reply
The words of epictetus and marcus aurelius made a difference for me.
I've also saw a therapist for cognitive therapy at that time and I've found that reading the stoics helped me with the therapy.
But: It is not an alternative for seeking profession help and I'm just a single biased data-point.
[+] [-] jjmat|13 years ago|reply
The ancient stoics seem to have stumbled upon important insights into our nature and how to be happy. A good introductory book to stoicism is William Irvine's "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy".
Interestingly the founder of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, Albert Ellis, "credited Epictetus with providing a foundation for his system of psychotherapy".
[+] [-] rhizome|13 years ago|reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc
[+] [-] albemuth|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pfedor|13 years ago|reply
So no, depression doesn't lie any more than a healthy brain, it just tells you the truths and lies you don't want to hear.
Of course, I agree with the article that if you are unwell you should seek help. But I had this thought once: the doctor who prescribes you medication optimizes for a different thing than you may want to. Say there are two possibilities (numbers completely made up)
(1) Not taking the medication, which results in a suicide 5% of the time and getting over it on your own and a perfectly happy life in 95%.
(2) Going with the medication and being not suicidal but slightly unhappy for the rest of your life with 100% chance.
Then your doctor's incentives are such that he'll certainly choose (2), but that's not what you might choose if you were aware of the options.
[+] [-] naish|13 years ago|reply
http://thechrisgethardshow.tumblr.com/post/31345619495/for-g...
[+] [-] expralitemonk|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seunosewa|13 years ago|reply