[jjaksic]

Linus is not your boss in the sense that he pays you and can tell you what you do day o day, but he is your "boss" in the sense that he's the one who ultimately approves your work (which includes both your code and your conduct).

It's a "two-way street" (you can walk away as much as he), but you need to understand that this is not an equal relationship. It might have been if Linux did not yet have a file system and you were the only person who could build one. If that was the case, Linus might have swallowed his pride for the good of the project. But as it stands, Linux has existed for some 35 years without Bcachefs and can continue to do so. So the key stakeholders have simply decided that with this amount of friction, despite the technical advantages, it's not worth the trouble (yes, it is sad).

Very realistically and bluntly, you have 3 options: a) Learn to work Linus and other kernel maintainers in ways that are comparable with their work and processes. Remember, you're on their territory, and when in Rome, do as the Romans do. b) Keep and develop Bcachefs out of kernel. That way you can stay on your own turf and work on your terms, but Bcachefs is going to be a much less attractive and viable option, leave alone become the default fs. c) Have someone else do the integration work and collaboration with the kernel team.

These are your options, but a combination is also an option. I would probably recommend starting with option b first and finish the bulk of the work out of tree. Then once it's all done and ready to ship, try to get it into the kernel as politely and timely as possible (you shouldn't need any late commits this time). Continue developing new and experimental functionality out of tree to keep the number of PRs (and thus possible causes of friction) low. I don't know if at any point you'd want to ask someone else to interface with the kernel team. I think it's far preferable if you can learn to do it yourself. Knowing how to work with people (including difficult people) is an incredibly important and useful skill in almost anyone's career. Maybe find a communication/diplomacy mentor? I've never heard anyone complain about your engineering skills, but this is really holding you back.

Again and as always, thank you for your hard work. I wish you all the best and hope that some day we can all use Bcachefs by default.

[koverstreet]

No, it's not an equal relationship. Linus and the kernel do not have a great track record on filesystems :)

XFS has been burning through maintainers, and btrfs never fully stabilized. Given that, it doesn't make sense for anyone to be trying to dictate; that's a track record that should be cause for reexamining how we do things.

Working with the kernel has been extremely disruptive to bcachefs development and the community, so as with anyone else who's being disruptive and not listening, at some point I have to say "enough is enough, you're taking up too much of my time, we can work together again when you figure some things out".

I do not strictly need bcachefs to be in the kernel. I do need a functioning release process and a stable community free of drama.

[rekoil]

> Working with the kernel has been extremely disruptive to bcachefs development and the community

From an excited and hopeful potential future user looking in, this sounds like "working with <insert only grocery store in town> has been extremely disruptive to me selling my produce", there's nowhere else your customers can realistically get your product, unless you want to only sell to extremely picky customers who will make the hour long trip out to your farm and back.

> I do not strictly need bcachefs to be in the kernel.

But I (and your other users) do...

I shouldn't be weighing in, I'm a lightweight with no skin in the game here, just a regular (very technical) user. I guess I just want you to know that your product has many people that want to use it, but even I won't drive to your farm for it, as I can't risk a Linux-update breaking the DKMS-modules that make my system able to use the bcachefs filesystem all my data is on.

I don't know what possible avenue we have of getting bcachefs back into the kernel and maintained, but I hope you find it, whatever it is.