[tomatohs]

It's not 2010 anymore. Most startups can't even attract "the best engineers" much less hire them.

This is the late game, why would an engineer work for a fraction of a percent of equity and a below market salary when they can take a job at FANG?

You've got to be offering something really, really valuable like remote work, an interesting problem, and/or a new experience. Otherwise the math doesn't math.

[indoordin0saur]

Engineers don't really care about equity anymore because they've been burned so many times. The big payouts from a successful company are not necessarily guaranteed the way they were pre-2015 or so. It has become too common for there to be behind-closed-doors dlilutions and investor-only exit opportunities. It has become very unwise to trust anything beyond real cash wired to your bank account.

[rachofsunshine]

Author of the OP here - to put some more empirical backing to this, virtually every single engineer in our candidate pool values illiquid equity at 20% or less of face value, and about one in three give it no weight at all.

Totally off the topic of the thread, but it's why I do things differently with the people who work for me. I'm the sole owner of Otherbranch, but I pay out a percentage of profits over certain thresholds (between 25 and 75%, rising at higher levels of profit) to the team. Keeps things concrete and aligns incentives with building something that works today rather than obsessing over a hypothetical exit.

[jcalvinowens]

Every single solitary person I've personally known who worked at a successful startup got screwed out of their equity somehow. Literally every single one.

[thinkingtoilet]

I was working for a large company with great pay and incredible benefits. I was fucking miserable. I took a 35% pay cut to go to a small company with basically no benefits. I'm so much happier now. I live in a rural area and work remote. I live reasonably. I don't need all the money I can possibly get.

[Keyframe]

why would an engineer work for a fraction of a percent of equity and a below market salary when they can take a job at FANG?

Once you hit a few million in the bank, have a house, priorities kind of shift. Not for everyone, but for those that would work elsewhere for reasons not money.

[cmrdporcupine]

The problem you'll find (I've found) in this case is that management in many of these "startups" expect a certain kind of ... ahem... motivational/authoritarian structure ... that lacks effectiveness or sense with someone who has paid off their mortgage and is mainly there in order to ship things and enjoy crafting software.

Put it another way, there are people in every company whose reasons being there can conflict with the motivations of an engineer with the priorities you describe. Often those people end up being your manager.

[cmrdporcupine]

It's always been the case that FAANG or whatever are not always the "best" home for the "best" engineers. Many do not/did not feel comfortable there, especially as they became more and more corporate and slow.

But unfortunately the answer now is that "best engineers" can't work there either because the layoff / employment-squeeze is in full swing.

You're right that the equity packages offered by startups to engineers are generally insulting. Every time this has come up in negotiation in the last few positions I've interviewed for the founders won't even tell you what % of shares they're offering, nor any sense of what the real value is, just pretend nonsense.

[adw]

In my experience startups have as much bullshit as FAANG companies, it’s just different bullshit.

[mathiaspoint]

Large corporations are probably the worst place actually. You get slotted into some random project treadmill (which will be completely different from whatever position you interviewed for) where most of the decisions are made by middle managers at least one or two levels above you. Going out of your way to solve problems will be ignored at best and my even result in a reprehend.

These places are for people who hate thinking but are good at pretending otherwise.

[OhMeadhbh]

Because FANG companies do not attract "top talent." They attract "very good talent," but typically talent that requires infrastructure that doesn't exist at startups. Daryl Havens is the exception that proves this rule, and you are not Daryl (unless you are Daryl and in which case, "Hey Daryl! Let's meet up sometime and chat about VAXen.")

[senko]

Neither do scrappy startups, because they don't have the money.

Top talent that accept below-insanely-great pay start their own startups.