[kcsrk]

You are right that the dynamic arrays story does not read like a straightforward “how to inspire contributions.” But part of what I wanted to do in the talk was to show things as they actually unfolded. In OCaml compiler development, there is a very strong emphasis on correctness and long-term stability. That can make contributions, especially to core language features, feel harder than they might in faster-moving ecosystems.

The dynamic arrays case is a good illustration. What began as a small PR grew into years of design iterations, debates about representation, performance, and multicore safety, and eventually a couple of thousand lines of code and more than 500 comments before it landed. From one perspective, that looks discouraging. From another, it shows the weight we place on getting things right, because once a feature ships, it is very hard to undo.

That tension, between wanting to be open and encouraging contributions but also needing to protect stability, is something I think we should be talking about openly. My hope is that by making the process more visible we can demystify it and help contributors understand not just what happened, but why.

[octachron]

A point that I find missing in the timeline for dynamic array is that there have been implementation for dynamic arrays available in libraries for more than twenty years.

However, none of the authors of those libraries were really happy with their own implementation because those implementations had to choose between performance, API usability or thread safety.

When I closed the student pull request (which was a naive implementation with no unsafe features), it was with the idea that it was unfair to expect a beginner use to solve those issues.

The subsequent iterations explored different part of the design space before the final iteration which converged to safely using unsafe language features to reach a new local API optimum.

[sidkshatriya]

I think this is the tension in most software. If you want to have excellent and correct software it will take time.

And if you want more features with a "fix as you go approach" you will often have huge technical debt and get saddled with poor interfaces, often forever.

But, I think OCaml errs too much on the side of getting it right the first time. The result is that state of the art keeps moving far ahead. By the time OCaml "catches up" the field of programming languages has moved far ahead. So OCaml always remains the Jack of all trades and the master of none (IMHO).

I like the direction OxCaml is taking. But the problem is that no one has another 10 years to see its learnings get folded back into OCaml. There is a real chance that OxCaml may diverge so much that it becomes impractical to merge it into OCaml. Flambda2 is another great piece of software that may also take a long time to come into OCaml proper.

So I feel that things need to be "speeded up" if OCaml has to become a bigger ecosystem. You can see that some big projects are moving away from OCaml -- facebook for instance used to have their python typechecker in OCaml. Their new one, pyrefly is in Rust. This could be an isolated story, no doubt.

[sidkshatriya]

Now OCaml values adding features carefully to the language so that there is no future regret. But being slow and conservative has _not_ minimized regret. The "O" in OCaml i.e. Objects (and Classes) is almost ignored nowadays. Janestreet, a large industrial user seems to be actively against using the "O" part of OCaml.

So here we have gotten the worst of both worlds -- a language that is evolving slowly and a language that has large features that are almost soft discouraged. My primary language is Rust and not OCaml (mostly dabble in OCaml) so I may not fully know what I'm talking about when it comes to OCaml.

[StopDisinfo910]

> By the time OCaml "catches up" the field of programming languages has moved far ahead.

Hard to reconcile with the fact that Ocaml had 90% of the features people like in Rust today twenty years ago, a module system which is still better than Haskell, and is currently implementing a full effect system.

It still pretty much ahead of every mainstream languages.

[rwmj]

OCaml is doing just fine, thanks.