[davidatbu]

Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you're claiming that the person who started (and lead onto maturity) LLVM, Swift, and MLIR, writing millions of lines of c++ and leading dozens of engineers in the process, is primarily good at self promotion (as opposed to, say, language design, or compilers, or tackling really hard and long term software projects)?

[monkeyelite]

That’s right, and saying otherwise is actually robbing him of his rightful talent and ability.

> really hard and long term software project

That’s kind of what I mean. He commits to projects and gets groups of people talking about them and interested.

Imagine how hard it was to convince everyone at apple to use his language - and how many other smart engineers projects were not chosen. It’s not even clear the engineering merits were there for that one.

[davidatbu]

So I think a demonstrative example of your claim would be if you knew someone who is as accomplished with regards to compilers, language design, tackling really hard long term projects, but not as good at self promotion, and elaborate on what the lack of that skill-set caused.

The only other person I know of who has started and lead to maturity multiple massive and infrastructural software projects is Fabrice Bellard. I've never ran into him self promoting (podcasts, HN, etc), and yet his projects are widely used and foundational.

It seems to me like the evidence points to "if you tackle really hard, long term, and foundational software projects successfully, people will use it, regardless of your ability to self promote."