[jonp888]

I do wonder what the French population actually want as a solution to the unsustainable debt and huge proportion of tax revenue(second highest in the EU) spent on social benefits.

Clearly they recognise a need for reform because they vote for politicians who run on a reform platform. Yet as soon as said reformer tries to change anything at all, it's back to the barricades.

Reduce benefits? Riot!

Increase tax rates? Riot!

Extend the retirement age? Riot!

Increase immigration? Riot!

[ajb]

From an Anglo-Saxon perspective that's what it looks like, but I think you are missing a cultural difference. In France, the state does not have the legitimacy that it does in the UK and US. In the UK parliament, not the people, is sovereign; this is more or less the practical situation in the US as well, despite lip-service to popular sovereignty.

In France, the people maintain the right to distruptively object to government actions and laws. What seems to us to be a criminal act may have (depending on circumstances) more popular legitimacy than the laws themselves. Or it may not, depending.

[bwb]

France is in trouble because people don't want to face the math. It's going to take a leader to push through changes nobody wants and somehow make them feel good about it. Hard bit.

Also, the USA is in the same spot. Although better as their tax burden is so low, so raising it higher is easier when it comes to the math side of things.

[maeln]

> France is in trouble because people don't want to face the math.

I disagree, a lot of people here are quite aware that we are in very difficult financial situation, from all side of the political spectrum. The main issue is that there is a very big disagreement on how to solve it (i.e how/who to tax more, and where to cut spending). And with a fragmented national assembly, everything is at a deadlock right now.

[potato3732842]

English government: "we have revoked all your rights and outlawed tea"

English people: "oh bother, guess I'll just watch football"

French government: "we are levying a .0053% tax on stinky cheese"

French people: "we are on our way to the capitol with rocket launchers and we will light on fire every speed camera we encounter on our way"

They're like Europe's Portland but without the prevalence of piercings and hair dye. Beautiful really.

[0b110907]

The french have really nailed protesting, see the BBQ adapted to be rolled along tram tracks to ensure you can stave off hunger mid protest: https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/tjmw8s/fr...

[verzali]

Rights whatever, but they'd never get away with outlawing tea.

[inetknght]

> I do wonder what the French population actually want as a solution to the unsustainable debt and huge proportion of tax revenue(second highest in the EU) spent on social benefits.

Fewer rich people would be my guess.

[logicchains]

Total French private wealth is around $15 trillion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_pri... ), French government spending is around $1.8 trillion/year. Even if the French government were to tax 100% of that wealth, it wouldn't be enough to cover 10 years of spending. Fundamentally the French economy isn't producing enough to support the current level of pension spending, due to a continuously falling ratio of workers to retirees. No amount of taxing anyone could produce enough money to plug that hole.

[CamperBob2]

When has that ever helped?

[creer]

Many french people, like in most other places, don't give a shit who gets cut or increased as long as it's not them. These people will try and paralyze the country because it's effective and the elected government will reliably back off from whatever was objectionable. Sarkozy, a long time ago, ran for president specifically against that, proposing that the country run that gauntlet once and for all. To solve that problem. He was elected on that platform - so it's not like there isn't support for it. Then he backed off like everyone else.

[logicchains]

The population isn't homogeneous. The fundamental problem is that the average age of the population keeps increasing, meaning fewer and fewer working people per retiree. This means young people's quality of living gets worse and worse as they have to support more and more non-working people via pensions. Given the opposition to mass immigration, there doesn't seem to be any feasible solution in the near future.

[maeln]

Well, you will never make 65 million people agree with each other.

> Clearly they recognise a need for reform because they vote for politicians who run on a reform platform.

Meh. Macron, and his party, was not really running on a reform platform. He was the typical, business centrist candidate.

And the national assembly is very divided right now, and the government is systematically from a minority party (so neither from the left union, or the extreme right RN), which are not running on a reform platform (quite the opposite).

There is proposition about reforming taxes to taxes the wealthiest, something with some popular support, but no party that support this kind of reform as the power to make it happen right now.

We are in a deadlock since the dissolution of the national assembly by Macron, and we probably will be until the next presidential election, or a new dissolution that would give a big majority to one party which would pretty much ensure them control of the government.

The french system is really not made for a fragmented assembly. This is not what you can find in more parliamentary system where coalition form the government. A fragmented national assembly is basically a deadlock in France's fifth republic system.

[lucianbr]

Why? What exactly makes it possible or impossible to have a coalition government, in your opinion?

A naive look tells me if a majority can agree to support a government then it can work, and it not not. What "system setup" helps or hinders a majority made up of different parties? To me it seems the important part is the willingness of parties to compromise. Which may or may not be there regardless of the "system setup".

[ratelimitsteve]

There are actually several French people and if one of them votes for austerity while the other protests it that doesn't actually make both of them hypocrites.

[ok123456]

Why should people meekly accept austerity or acculturation?

[alephnerd]

The alternative is going bankrupt, thus leading to forced and callous austerity by the IMF and ECB - just like what Greece faced. That would solve the problem as well, but French voters would have no say or autonomy.

French voters need to get it in their head that they need to accept their government tightening belts, otherwise they will have no say on what gets cut.

[icepush]

What they want is for the government to write off the debt, but good luck actually getting it.

[port11]

Perhaps ending or cutting the laughable 211 billion euros as subsidies to businesses?

[hamilyon2]

Chaos agents promote cooperation

[cAtte_]

this is called goomba fallacy.

[warkdarrior]

> Increase tax rates? Riot!

Somehow the tax rates for top 1% never go up.

[JumpCrisscross]

> tax rates for top 1% never go up

Genuine question: what is the effective tax rate on France's top 1%?

[tehjoker]

> huge proportion of tax revenue(second highest in the EU) spent on social benefits.

This is the goal not the problem.

[bwb]

Somewhat agree, but the problem is that debt is at 110% and taxes are about maxed out. At some point, you go outside the Laffer curve, and then your economic engine is stunted (which maybe France already has?).