[polygotdomain]

> if a private business with all the incentive in the world can't figure out how to lower healthcare costs

What if their incentives aren't to lower cost? Insurance companies make more when the obfusicate pricing and payout less. That's the opposite of incentive, it's a way to cover up your profits.

> Everyone that proposes a single payer can't explain who makes less money.

If you think the healthcare industry is just doctor-insurance-you, then you're nuts. Look up pharmacy benefit managers. They're basically third parties that are in place to jack up prices.

> Even if you're able to do everything the health insurance company does and capture 100% of their margin with equal efficiency, you'll capture a profit margin of around 2-6%.

Insurance companies have had their profits capped via the ACA for more than a decade now. Where they're making their money is by using more third parties in the middle to jack up pricing and increase costs so that A) their 2-6% is bigger, and B) their "investments" in the third parties are not regulated by the ACA so they can get their massive profits their.

> The only argument I hear is "other countries do it", which is just unpersuasive. It's not a serious argument. Propose something better

Its a very serious argument, you're just happy to dismiss it for some reason. If the entire developed world uses a different system than us, gets better results and for less money, then you'd have to be insane to insist that mimic those systems is not a serious alternative.