[space_fountain]

I don't know if it's productive to talk on here, but I'm not the person you seem to think I am. I think Israel has a right to defend itself and I think it has a right to take in refuges if it wants to, but it doesn't have anything to do with your claim that Jewish israelis have some sort of claim to the land owing to ancestral history that isn't shared by the people they literally pushed out. You can read this wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians), but my read is that the jews and palestinians both descended from a similar group of people. Palestinians are mostly just historic jews that converted

There are things that have moved me to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause over the past few years and I think if you haven't listened to Ezra Klein talk about this you should. I think he holds the right balance of pointing out the horror of what Israel has done while holding the context of the horrors Palestine seems intent on doing if given power

[rizpanjwani]

Agree with you on the first point except the conversion was not voluntary if you know Islam’s history in the region. Not only did it wipe out religions but also language and culture. Why can’t Israel have one tiny country for itself in the fraction of the region where the Jewish people have existed for 4000+ years? That’s what this whole thing is about. It’s religious warfare against the Jews disguised as fight for national independence or whatever they want to call it.

[space_fountain]

I'm not sure that any ethnic group has a right to a country, but I think it's pointless to talk about if Jews should have one though because they went and did it. That's done. I agree with you in so much as there's no going back now, but talking about what happened thousands of years ago is a poor way to decide what should happen now, especially when it's done simplistically.

The Jews who moved back to Israel did not have a greater claim to the region through ancestry than the people they pushed out and honestly I don't think it really would have mattered if they did.

Yes it is a bit of a religious war at times, but also imagine you were born in Palestine in the period of the british mandate. Your family likely lived in the region for thousands of years practicing more or less the same faith you did. You would have been forced out of your home in 1948. Your house would literally be given away as abandoned. If you happened to settle in East Jerusalem you might have been given a home in compensation. That home was originally some poor jewish families, but still somewhere to live, but then when Israel annexed the East Jerusalem they passed laws giving the property back to the original owners. Fine, but did you get your home back? No the law was structured explicitly so as not to apply to you. Maybe you were unlucky though and you resettled further into the interior of the west bank. Well then you might see extremist come into your community in the middle of the night and bulldoze your home. I'm not sure you need religion to end up radicalized in this situation. It isn't fair what Israel did to palestinians in the 40s and it isn't fair what they're doing now in the west bank and gaza. It also isn't fair what Arab countries have done to the jews, but the people who live in the west bank have now power over that

[tguvot]

one thing that wikipedia article dedicates 1 sentence and only in order to dismiss, it's that there was significant arab immigration into area when it got economic boost after the arrival of the jews.

there are estimates of 100k - 300k migrants in 20s and 30s as border with jordan and egypt was unsupervised.

somewhat indirect confirmation of this, will be for example hamas minister of interior and security claiming that most of them have either egyptian or saudi origins: https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-minister-interior-and-nationa...

a good chunk of actual palestinians are probably descendants of jews that got "culturally colonized" . but it's not known how much of them.

i looked in a past through a bunch of genetic studies that were made that establish that palestinians are genetically native/related to jews. what i didn't find is how they collected data and if they discarded data that was "inconvenient" for purpose of analysis