[etblg]

> Charlie Kirk thought conversation was the only way we were going to heal America. He believed we had to learn to talk to each other without vitriol, without poison, without anger. We had to be able to listen, and say what we mean, without being mean. And to talk to each other across divides. These are exactly the kind of things good discussion here exemplifies.

And just so we're clear on what some of those surely great conversations were, to say what he meant, without him being mean, to talk across divides, here's some of the guy's ideals:

"If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?"

"Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more."

"Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge." – Discussing news of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s engagement

"We need to have a Nuremberg-style trial for every gender-affirming clinic doctor. We need it immediately."

"The American Democrat party hates this country. They wanna see it collapse. They love it when America becomes less white."

"The great replacement strategy, which is well under way every single day in our southern border, is a strategy to replace white rural America with something different."

"America has freedom of religion, of course, but we should be frank: large dedicated Islamic areas are a threat to America."

"Islam is the sword the left is using to slit the throat of America."

"There is no separation of church and state. It’s a fabrication, it’s a fiction, it’s not in the constitution. It’s made up by secular humanists."

Choice quotes from https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk...

Can't lionize a guy for promoting what he believed in without saying what he believed in.

And since we need a disclaimer in all these threads: I don't care about the guy before or after his death, I don't agree with him at all, and I think his views were pretty bad, pretty bad.

[amradio1989]

Okay, you disagree with him. I get that. But why are you telling us? Are you venting? Are you responding to an experience you had in another thread?

Right now it feels like you've dropped us in the middle of an argument without any context regarding 1) who you're talking to 2) what you're responding to.

You've quoted the OP, but your response seems directed to something else. I don't think the OP lionized anyone, or at the very least, they didn't discourage discussing Charlie Kirk's views. I'm not sure what prompted this response.

Are you saying you don't agree with civil discourse? That you don't believe we should learn to talk to each other without vitriol, poison, and anger? That we shouldn't be able to listen, and say what we mean, without being mean?

[keepamovin]

A lot of content there, I want to look at it.

> Can't lionize a guy for promoting what he believed in without saying what he believed in.

On the contrary, he spoke very plainly and clearly. Reading in or projecting beliefs is the activity of those who would lie about him to try to justify harm.

Thank you for sharing the quotes. I haven’t vetted them, but I trust you. I provide context one by one:

1. "If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?"

   Refers to how DEI elevates people by skin tone or ethnic claim who would otherwise not have sufficient merit for those roles. Commonly misinterpreted as implying skin or ethnicity correlates with lack of merit, but in truth the view fairly seeks a merit-only approach.

   This criticism of DEI doesn’t pretend that two equally meritorious applicants—one a Black female, one a white male—have an equal chance of success in a context where either of them is the minority (e.g. a white guy in a Black finance house, and vice versa). There’s a role for merit-based DEI that addresses the situation: if the only reason you don’t get it is because of your skin color, you should get it. Most people believe this is fair. Racism from every race is real, but practically it may not work to force a non-ethnic Asian into an Asian workplace even with perfect language, because racial stories from the culture will impede optimal collaboration.

2. "Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more."

   Statistically, Black people in the U.S. are more likely involved in violent and property crimes against all other races. It’s a fact-based representation. It is not to disparage Black people but to reflect a current fact to do with crime. It is not to suggest that crime is caused by race, but rather correlated with cultural-socioeconomics which themselves are correlated with race.

3. "Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge." – Discussing news of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s engagement.

   Refers to Charlie celebrating Swift’s engagement to “the Pfizer spokesman,” hopeful the experience of marriage will be a positive transformative experience for her, and encouraging her to embrace the traditional marital values he believes work.

   Full transcript (via Wisprnote): "But maybe one of the reasons why Taylor Swift has been so just kind of annoyingly liberal over the last couple of years is that she's not yet married and she doesn't have children. I say this non-sarcastically. I say this as a husband and a father: having children changes you, getting married changes you. And I hope that America's biggest pop star, marrying the pharmaceutical spokesperson, ends up conservatizing them. Taylor Swift might de-radicalize herself, she might come back down to reality. I want them to have lots of children—it teaches you something about yourself. Deep down, I think Taylor Swift was actually raised as a conservative who has gotten kind of caught up in this metropolitan liberal stuff, and she doesn’t quite have an attachment to the conservative backbone she was raised in. But this might reattach her in the best possible way. And I'm not saying this sarcastically; I've seen it happen time and time again. When people start to get married and have children, it changes your politics, it clarifies your worldview. And for Taylor Swift, who obviously is very popular and incredibly supported, she might go from a cat lady to a JD Vance supporter. I think we should celebrate that. Taylor Swift, having two or three children—she should have more children than she has houses. That is my challenge, Taylor Swift, and I'm not being sarcastic. I think if she ends up having children, she'll stop this kind of liberal, endorsing-Joe-Biden nonsense. We want Taylor Swift on Team America. We want you to leave the island of the Wokies, and we would welcome you with open arms. One of the reasons so many people on the right have been skeptical or at least a little negative on Taylor Swift is that, up until this point, she’s not a great role model for young women to wait all the way until you’re 35 and just put your career first. We just talked about this with Katie Miller. However, there’s a great chance to change that—a great chance for Taylor Swift now to get married and have a ton of children. You can certainly afford it, Taylor. And you’ve been all through America and the ups and downs. If you feel that violent shaking in your home, that is the earthquake of the pop culture. If you hear that high-pitched scream, those are the young ladies on your block screaming. And honestly, Pfizer pays well, baby. Pfizer pays the bills. That is quite a ring, Mr. Kelsey—I’m impressed. I got to be honest, we don’t know exactly how much Pfizer paid you to peddle that product, but boy, you brought in the Benjamins, sir. That is some impressive carrots right there—that right there has its own zip code. I’m impressed. All kidding and sarcasm aside, this is something I hope will make Taylor Swift more conservative, engage in reality more, and get outside of the abstract clouds. Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge. And most importantly, I can’t wait to go to a Taylor Kelsey cuff—I can’t say it without laughing. You’ve got to change your name; if not, you don’t really mean it. Congratulations, Taylor.” 

Or video Source if you prefer: https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1960413943391756288/vi...

4. "We need to have a Nuremberg-style trial for every gender-affirming clinic doctor. We need it immediately."

   Refers to the medical practice of encouraging solving personal psychological problems with a medical/social solution, and pathologizing normal youthful confusion and experimentation into something that needs to be controlled and fixed, often in irreversible ways, before the age of consent.

5. "The American Democrat party hates this country. They wanna see it collapse. They love it when America becomes less white."

   Refers to sanctuary policy of unchecked immigration and selectively enforced immigration law in Democrat states and cities, backed by party leadership rhetoric supporting this. The thesis is that unchecked immigration is destructive on multiple fronts: it erodes democracy by farming votes, creates costly benefits that don’t produce productive contributors, erodes rule of law, enhances conflict between existing communities and newcomers, and unvetted channels lead to abuse, trafficking, and the entry of violent criminals.

6. "The great replacement strategy, which is well under way every single day in our southern border, is a strategy to replace white rural America with something different."

   Refers to the math of increasing one ethnic demographic population necessarily shrinking the proportion of all others.

7. "America has freedom of religion, of course, but we should be frank: large dedicated Islamic areas are a threat to America."

   Refers to issues arising from different values, challenges integrating across religious/ethnic lines, and the long-term consequences of that.

8. "Islam is the sword the left is using to slit the throat of America."

   Refers to how Islam has been abused as a sword by various revolutionary or terrorist groups, and draws analogy between those groups and the American left. The analogy is apt: much of the narrative structure and discourse used by Marxist revolutionaries and terrorist recruiters finds parallels in the American left.

9. "There is no separation of church and state. It’s a fabrication, it’s a fiction, it’s not in the constitution. It’s made up by secular humanists."

   Refers to some finer points of constitutional and religious law and history, which I’m not an expert on. But broadly, it reflects the idea that America’s constitution was founded on, designed with, and inextricably linked to Christian values—among other possible connections.

---

Good luck to you!

[zahlman]

It's amazing to me that you put this much effort into a calm, thoughtful rebuttal that honours the HN guidelines, and got downvotes and no responses for it. My experience has been that people who post lists of quotes like that are not interested in a discussion or in considering the possibility that they have been misled.

In the future I recommend verifying quotes and looking up full context as well rather than simply trying to consider the words as given.

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

I understood this to apply to people under discussion, not just other users.