[sandy_coyote]

I talk about this topic with my (childless) wife quite a bit. Reasons we postulate:

The rent is too damn high

It takes longer into adulthood to achieve stability

Porn brain

Phone brain (24/7 infinite entertainment)

Dating apps are not delightful

The pandemic led some people to stay in for good

Loss of third places (rent too damn high again)

Tight job markets lead to reluctance to bring kids into the picture

Healthcare is more expensive every year

American individualism diminishes multi generational family support structures after a generation

A long tail of other causes: drugs, gun violence, obesity, losing one's religion, growing up with divorced parents

[m463]

that's a pretty comprehensive list... and pretty thought provoking.

maybe just understanding the list might help to conquer it, at least on a personal level.

There's something I've been thinking about. Might be too general for your list: lack of connections.

[lcnPylGDnU4H9OF]

> lack of connections

Belongs on the list right next to "loss of third places".

[xyzelement]

I used to kinda buy these things until I started getting to know religious people in the last few years. An average secular couple living in Brooklyn has all the problems you're describing, and then their religious Jewish neighbor lives in the same world but has 6.6 kids on average.

The thing that I think is different - even when I was an atheist, I had the value of "children" very strongly - that they are my way to bring life and perpetuate my ideas and contribute to the world. This was always strong with me, and I see similar concepts strong with my religious friends. Meanwhile my secular friends are much weaker on their motivation "oh... yeah maybe I'll be OK with kids if it happens" - because the value is not there, they aren't motivated to deal with the things you're listing - even though these things are NOTHING compared to what people dealt with in history and still had kids.

[andrewmcwatters]

Yeah, every time I read people saying stuff like the OP, I’m like, “Yeah, sure if you’re an atheist.” The religious world is chugging along just fine.

All of my religious friends have two, three kids, perfectly fine or above average incomes.

It’s just not a priority for non-religious people, and there was never a loss of third spaces. Church hopping to date is a thing. People share values. Congregations celebrate new babies and chip in. Community exists.

It’s a comparatively bad experience for those without that support. The secular world has none of this except maybe immediate family, and even then I don’t see support from non-religious parents to their non-religious children. So of course these people think these things. They’re basically thrown into the world with no social net.

[kashunstva]

> even though these things are NOTHING compared to what people dealt with in history and still had kids

Until recent human history, though, humans had far less control over childbearing than now. And children in the past were relied on to provide supplemental labour to maintain the household which was, much more often than now, a farm. So at times there were very practical reasons for childbearing.

But agree, deeply held values enable some to overcome obstacles.

[arresin]

Yes that’s everything.