At my work, we have an X-ray machine for PCB reverse engineering. On Fridays we throw in random stuff from around the office, and sometimes make videos about what we find inside.
A few weeks ago we released an X-ray teardown of several other, older chargers. Very interesting to compare with these fancy new ones!
The best part I find about ChargerLab teardowns is identifying all the passive and discrete components.
Western distributors tend to only stock western/japanese brands of these, but they can make up a sizable fraction of the BOM (especially electrolytic capacitors) so knowing who the big players are comfortable with using is very handy. LCSC stock a lot, but its nice to know which suppliers have been proven in use.
> but its nice to know which suppliers have been proven in use.
Watch out. Some of the suppliers you’ve never heard of are capable of delivering good parts to companies like Apple but still have ultra cheap parts available retail.
Hopefully Apple releases a UK version of this adapter soon. The design looks very similar to my beloved Apple UK 20W charger [1]. I’d buy a 40-60W version in a heartbeat!
Wow, that does look very neat for an Apple charger. The prongs are individually foldable, right?
I wish there was something like this for Europlug chargers. Ironically, the most compact USB adapter for me so far is one with a US plug, combined with an US-to-Europlug adapter, which can be made very compact, but seem a bit risky at 220V, given that US plugs expose the prongs while connected.
I wonder what temperature this thing hits. I have an even smaller 65 W GAN charger[0] that gets pretty toasty under load. I can't really see Apple wanting to ship a toasty charger, though.
I remember the old macbook pro chargers, they and the cable would get so hot it melted the insulation of the cable (over time). Not to mention the self-desoldering GPU’s inside the actual laptops.
Wow, that's really small. Only 43 cm3 (without the plug) for the EU version. I own an a Anker Nano II 65W GaN Charger and that's already small with 64 cm3. I can imagine that Rolling Square one getting even hotter with that low amount of material, and thus cooling.
The one thing I like about the Apple charging bricks is how on certain models the prongs can be swapped out for a cable, which is very useful when the wall plug is cramped. However, this device doesn't seem to incorporate that so I'm not sure what benefit it has over an Anker.
Is there a way to slow down these high power chargers? Sometimes I want a fast charge but mostly I want slow to getting hot. I realize overnight charging phones are smart enough to do this but otherwise seems to be impossible without having two different chargers.
The charging smarts are always in the phone, and always have been. Just because a USB port has 15 or 30 or a gazillion Watts available doesn't mean that the phone is required to consume that much. Similarly, the wall outlets in your house may be able to supply a couple of thousand Watts -- but that doesn't mean that a device plugged in is required to use all of that.
And batteries can charge pretty fast these days. Modern pocket supercomputers keep track of battery temperature to keep things within defined limits during charging.
AFAIK the real problem, longevity-wise, for these batteries in normal use is the time spent at extremes of charge (<20% or >80%, ish).
That all said: Sure, some phones have options.
My Samsung phone does some man-behind-the-curtain tricks to attempt to make it reach 100% just before it predicts that I'll unplug it (eg, when I wake up). The idea is to maximize the charge on the phone while also keeping it at 100% SoC for as little time as practical. This probably works great for people with regular schedules (which is to say: people who are not like me).
This phone also lets me explicitly disable various fast-charge modes. I think there's at least two different modes that I can turn off (but I leave them all turned on).
And there's also a mode that limits the maximum charge to 85%, to promote long-term battery health. I have this mode engage automatically when using wireless charging, which is something I only do with the wireless charging cradle on my car's dashboard. (I do want the phone to be powered while I drive, but I don't normally need anything to work extra-hard to cram that last 15% into the battery when I'm on a long drive. It's a good balance, for me.)
It's up to the device. If I have an alarm for the morning my pixel 7 slow charges over the night so that it's full when the alarm goes off. Modern charging standards give all the control to the client device.
You could convert from USB-C to USB-A and back. MicroUSB adapters are popular to chain for devices that only charge on USB-A. There are also adapters just force legacy USB charging for same problem devices. Then your phone will only charge at 12W.
On newer MacBooks you can turn on a similar battery protection mechanism to the phones. I believe vs the phones the smaller chargers won’t stress these cells since they’re a lot larger. 20-40W into a 15Wh battery is more stress than the same through a 52Wh (MBA) battery. A 1C charging rate is healthy.
The device being charged controls the charging current. Typically for smaller gadgets, a single resistor connected to the charge controller IC sets the current. Bigger things like laptops may be more sophisticated.
I wish they'd discount their 35W dual port chargers or that I could find a similar 3rd party charger.
My main criteria are (1) dual USB-C ports to charge multiple devices in one location, (2) compact enough to not block the other receptacle, and (3) ports face down/to the side so can fit between the wall and furniture. Unfortunately most chargers fail at least one of these.
This is very cool, I might actually get one to charge my laptop.
That being said...
I can't be the only person who consciously avoids fast-charging my phone. My whole apartment is full of wireless charging pads intentionally plugged into weak chargers (wireless charging avoids putting wear on the USB port). 60 watts can't possibly be healthy for a battery small enough to fit into a phone.
Why do so many websites disable pinch-to-zoom for mobile users? This page is full of interesting close-up photos, but at least on my Android phone, I can't zoom in to see any of the details. Who benefits from disabling this feature?
I have an HP Zbook G1a laptop that uses 140W USB PD charging. However, except for the HP charger, I have not found a charger or cable pair that works. After a while they start cycling charging on and off. Under heavy load that happens almost immediately. Under light loads it might take hours.
Is there a ChargerLAB product that can explain what exactly is going on between the computer and the charger?
I have used Anker, Insignia and some random USB-C PD chargers and cables rated for 100-140-240W from various vendors.
Apple make an excellent UK 20W charger with folding pins.
Physically the design is pretty much the same as this new 60/40W version, so I would expect them to eventually offer a 60/40W folding pin UK charger too.
What's interesting about it is that it supports SPR AVS, which is a new USB power delivery spec. I'm not aware of any other chargers that support this.
> There doesn't really seem to be anything interesting about this.
Agreed. Seriously, am I missing something or are the compact chargers from various other companies at least as compelling as this? I've got a nice one from Lenovo with high output and a smaller form factor than this. (Several other manufacturers have a similar size and output so nothing special about Lenovo here). The Apple one, while maybe smaller then their usual, is still bigger and appears to be short and "fat" which can limit where you can plug it sometimes.
Or is just another "but this time it is from Apple" kind of thing. (All the vapor chamber talk from a few days ago had me scratching my head too.)
Does Apple even design their own chargers? I know previous chargers have been built by Samsung, Flextronics, and other power electronics companies.
Apple sells Anker chargers from within their online store and possibly retail too so I figured they threw in the towel long ago. Honestly it seems quite overpriced when you can get a similar Anker GaN charger for much less.
And no, this isn't 2004 anymore, non-OEM chargers are outstanding as long as they're not $2 crap off AliExpress.
When Apple stopped including the charger in the box with iPhone as a sleazy money grab, it was a tacit admission that non-OEM chargers reigned supreme. Still didn't stop the pious and devout from shelling out an extra $25 though.
Something like the Anker Prime 100W GaN charger is far more compact than any charger Apple has shipped.
Now, granted, many compact chargers lie about how long they can provide sustained power. That's exactly what this "dynamic" charger is doing, except that it's being more up-front about the fact that it's not a 60W charger, it's a "60W until it's inevitably too hot" charger.
I wish they could do a 2 port version. During holiday I tend to charge both my Phone and Battery pack at the same time over night. Unless All Hotels around the world start doing integrated GaN 30 to 40W charging port as standard I will still need to bring my own USB-C Adaptor.
Even the same 60W max, 30W per port is enough to charge both to full in 2-3 hours.
Great that Apple is making smaller chargers. I use a 65w anker 715 charger which weighs 120g for my laptop - ridiculously small compared to the massive 140w charger the laptop came with.
I have an Anker nano II that get's very hot while charging my laptop (~25-35W average). I should run a thermometer on it. If I held it for more than a second, I might get a burn.
How does one distinguish between all the tiny devils in the details between all possible chargers to have the maximum efficiency in ones iPhone charging?
There really aren’t any nuances to be aware of here. If the charger can provide 45W or more, it will charge your iPhone 17 Pro as fast as it can go. If you have an older iPhone, you don’t even need that much.
The Apple charger is mildly interesting because they made a slightly smaller than usual one that displays a dynamic behavior where it boosts up to 60W. That’s it.
(If you actually mean efficiency of energy delivered, and not time efficiency… the energy efficiency of charging your own personal phone is completely irrelevant to anything. You could save many times that amount of energy per year by switching to a heat pump water heater, or a heat pump clothes dryer, but most people haven’t.)
[+] [-] jstrieb|6 months ago|reply
At my work, we have an X-ray machine for PCB reverse engineering. On Fridays we throw in random stuff from around the office, and sometimes make videos about what we find inside.
A few weeks ago we released an X-ray teardown of several other, older chargers. Very interesting to compare with these fancy new ones!
https://youtu.be/4h4qabPsPfI
[+] [-] tecleandor|6 months ago|reply
Note that the audio mix for the microphone fell in the left channel only.
Apart from that, interesting images!
[+] [-] jstrieb|6 months ago|reply
https://youtu.be/z09X_ZnAcLs
Happy to take recommendations for other stuff to drop in there and film!
Also if this sounds cool to you, we're hiring US citizens.
https://redballoonsecurity.com/company/careers/
[+] [-] amelius|6 months ago|reply
Curious, does this machine get past the top copper layer?
[+] [-] copperx|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] snops|6 months ago|reply
Western distributors tend to only stock western/japanese brands of these, but they can make up a sizable fraction of the BOM (especially electrolytic capacitors) so knowing who the big players are comfortable with using is very handy. LCSC stock a lot, but its nice to know which suppliers have been proven in use.
[+] [-] Aurornis|6 months ago|reply
Watch out. Some of the suppliers you’ve never heard of are capable of delivering good parts to companies like Apple but still have ultra cheap parts available retail.
You can’t rely on brand names in this space.
[+] [-] Reason077|6 months ago|reply
[1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-20W-USB-C-Power-Adapter/dp/B0...
[+] [-] dwood_dev|6 months ago|reply
0: https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Foldable-Charger-Support-Com...
[+] [-] hinkley|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] lxgr|6 months ago|reply
I wish there was something like this for Europlug chargers. Ironically, the most compact USB adapter for me so far is one with a US plug, combined with an US-to-Europlug adapter, which can be made very compact, but seem a bit risky at 220V, given that US plugs expose the prongs while connected.
[+] [-] londons_explore|6 months ago|reply
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuPD4j8
It can deliver 50 watts entirely to 1 port, unlike most others where they mean 25 watts per port.
$5.50 with free shipping.
[+] [-] LorenDB|6 months ago|reply
[0]: https://rollingsquare.com/products/supertiny-the-smallest-65...
[+] [-] jofzar|6 months ago|reply
Hot but not too hot
[+] [-] londons_explore|6 months ago|reply
Many devices are made larger simply to have more surface area to spread the heat over to stay within the law.
[+] [-] nenenejej|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] thenthenthen|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] tacosalsa|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] arvinsim|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] dmonitor|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] dylan604|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] rr808|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] ssl-3|6 months ago|reply
And batteries can charge pretty fast these days. Modern pocket supercomputers keep track of battery temperature to keep things within defined limits during charging.
AFAIK the real problem, longevity-wise, for these batteries in normal use is the time spent at extremes of charge (<20% or >80%, ish).
That all said: Sure, some phones have options.
My Samsung phone does some man-behind-the-curtain tricks to attempt to make it reach 100% just before it predicts that I'll unplug it (eg, when I wake up). The idea is to maximize the charge on the phone while also keeping it at 100% SoC for as little time as practical. This probably works great for people with regular schedules (which is to say: people who are not like me).
This phone also lets me explicitly disable various fast-charge modes. I think there's at least two different modes that I can turn off (but I leave them all turned on).
And there's also a mode that limits the maximum charge to 85%, to promote long-term battery health. I have this mode engage automatically when using wireless charging, which is something I only do with the wireless charging cradle on my car's dashboard. (I do want the phone to be powered while I drive, but I don't normally need anything to work extra-hard to cram that last 15% into the battery when I'm on a long drive. It's a good balance, for me.)
[+] [-] BadBadJellyBean|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] ianburrell|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Moto7451|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] analog31|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] ellisv|6 months ago|reply
My main criteria are (1) dual USB-C ports to charge multiple devices in one location, (2) compact enough to not block the other receptacle, and (3) ports face down/to the side so can fit between the wall and furniture. Unfortunately most chargers fail at least one of these.
[+] [-] ryukoposting|6 months ago|reply
That being said...
I can't be the only person who consciously avoids fast-charging my phone. My whole apartment is full of wireless charging pads intentionally plugged into weak chargers (wireless charging avoids putting wear on the USB port). 60 watts can't possibly be healthy for a battery small enough to fit into a phone.
[+] [-] qnleigh|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] sigmar|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] SomeHacker44|6 months ago|reply
I have an HP Zbook G1a laptop that uses 140W USB PD charging. However, except for the HP charger, I have not found a charger or cable pair that works. After a while they start cycling charging on and off. Under heavy load that happens almost immediately. Under light loads it might take hours.
Is there a ChargerLAB product that can explain what exactly is going on between the computer and the charger?
I have used Anker, Insignia and some random USB-C PD chargers and cables rated for 100-140-240W from various vendors.
[+] [-] okasaki|6 months ago|reply
Also while the US plug makes some pretty compact power adapters, the effect is largely ruined in the EU and UK with their wider more cumbersome plugs.
[+] [-] Lio|6 months ago|reply
Physically the design is pretty much the same as this new 60/40W version, so I would expect them to eventually offer a 60/40W folding pin UK charger too.
https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MUVT3B/A/20w-usb-c-pow...
[+] [-] ridiculous_fish|6 months ago|reply
https://www.chargerlab.com/complete-pd-3-2-spr-avs-specifica...
[+] [-] torgoguys|6 months ago|reply
Agreed. Seriously, am I missing something or are the compact chargers from various other companies at least as compelling as this? I've got a nice one from Lenovo with high output and a smaller form factor than this. (Several other manufacturers have a similar size and output so nothing special about Lenovo here). The Apple one, while maybe smaller then their usual, is still bigger and appears to be short and "fat" which can limit where you can plug it sometimes.
Or is just another "but this time it is from Apple" kind of thing. (All the vapor chamber talk from a few days ago had me scratching my head too.)
[+] [-] geerlingguy|6 months ago|reply
I have to wonder if they have a team with an EE paired with an origami artist, with how creative some of the layouts get.
[+] [-] sugarpimpdorsey|6 months ago|reply
Apple sells Anker chargers from within their online store and possibly retail too so I figured they threw in the towel long ago. Honestly it seems quite overpriced when you can get a similar Anker GaN charger for much less.
And no, this isn't 2004 anymore, non-OEM chargers are outstanding as long as they're not $2 crap off AliExpress.
When Apple stopped including the charger in the box with iPhone as a sleazy money grab, it was a tacit admission that non-OEM chargers reigned supreme. Still didn't stop the pious and devout from shelling out an extra $25 though.
[+] [-] dangus|6 months ago|reply
Something like the Anker Prime 100W GaN charger is far more compact than any charger Apple has shipped.
Now, granted, many compact chargers lie about how long they can provide sustained power. That's exactly what this "dynamic" charger is doing, except that it's being more up-front about the fact that it's not a 60W charger, it's a "60W until it's inevitably too hot" charger.
[+] [-] qingcharles|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] ksec|6 months ago|reply
Even the same 60W max, 30W per port is enough to charge both to full in 2-3 hours.
[+] [-] chvid|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] _-_-__-_-_-|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] faangguyindia|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] tyleo|6 months ago|reply
https://slimq.life/
[+] [-] jnieminen|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] coder543|6 months ago|reply
The Apple charger is mildly interesting because they made a slightly smaller than usual one that displays a dynamic behavior where it boosts up to 60W. That’s it.
(If you actually mean efficiency of energy delivered, and not time efficiency… the energy efficiency of charging your own personal phone is completely irrelevant to anything. You could save many times that amount of energy per year by switching to a heat pump water heater, or a heat pump clothes dryer, but most people haven’t.)
[+] [-] LeoPanthera|6 months ago|reply