top | item 45312877

Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

406 points| irthomasthomas | 5 months ago |timesofindia.indiatimes.com

615 comments

order
[+] arn7av|5 months ago|reply
Update from USCIS: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/H1B...

"Clarification" from Press Secretary: https://x.com/PressSec/status/1969495900478488745

1.) This is NOT an annual fee. It’s a one-time fee that applies only to the petition.

2.) Those who already hold H-1B visas and are currently outside of the country right now will NOT be charged $100,000 to re-enter.

H-1B visa holders can leave and re-enter the country to the same extent as they normally would; whatever ability they have to do that is not impacted by yesterday’s proclamation.

3.) This applies only to new visas, not renewals, and not current visa holders.

It will first apply in the next upcoming lottery cycle.

[+] nrmitchi|5 months ago|reply
A "White House Official" may be saying this now, but it is not what was in the EO that was actually signed. There were no exclusions for current holders, and the start date was explicitly September 21, 2025 (a date that does apply to the "next lottery").

They are more than welcome to roll back this asinine decision, but pretending that everyone else is just mis-interpreting is gaslighting.

Either way, until there is an official, in-writting announcement that can be depended on, no one should be taking the advice of an unnamed White House source.

In any situation, your best bet is to follow the direction and guidance of your own attorney.

[+] mgraczyk|5 months ago|reply
The problem here is that the proclamation says otherwise. It doesn't include any exception for current holders

Trump has the legal authority to block anyone from entering for essentially any reason (see Trump v Hawaii)

So it doesn't matter much what the white house says today. They are free to change their minds tomorrow. That's part of the strategy, if immigrants are afraid they will be arbitrarily extorted at the border, then only the ones whose employers have bribed Trump will even bother applying

[+] kccqzy|5 months ago|reply
Nothing in the executive order says that those who already hold visas will not be charged, or that it will applies to new visas. And one can pretty much be sure that omitting that fact in the initial executive order announcement is intentional, because this administration wants chaos.
[+] yibg|5 months ago|reply
Info from customs agents at airport is aligned with this statement. Specifically that it does NOT apply to current visa holders. How consistent that is, no idea.
[+] darkoob12|5 months ago|reply
They don't tell her everything. She was clueless before.

We have seen Trump making decisions that surprised his closest aids.

[+] EasyMark|5 months ago|reply
That's what they're saying today. What happens Monday when Trump's not distracted by "Sunday Golf" ?
[+] mrtksn|5 months ago|reply
Who knows what will happen next? Maybe his base will be unhappy with the current format, start a social media campaign and make the WH post even better clarification that explains exactly the opposite.

They flip flopped on the foreign employees in hospitality and food production. The policies are driven by outrage, crypto purchases and early investors like Project2025 apparently. I don't think that there's any guaranties.

[+] rich_sasha|5 months ago|reply
UK around Brexit time thought kind of similar: let's keep the "riffraff" immigrants out by applying higher criteria. The narrative also changed this way: we don't want immigrants in general, but you, with your highly paid PhD-requiring job, you can go in, on a 2 year rolling basis. Then everyone's a winner, except for unwanted, unskilled labour.

But a lot of skilled labour left anyway. Partly because the general atmosphere got unpleasant. But also highly paid people have spouses, children, parents and other relatives. Once you are told you barely cleared (very high) criteria, you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you.

So the effect may well be that the kind of people whose productivity and tax bracket makes a 100k fee justifiable simply choose to go elsewhere.

Especially when the administration makes their contempt for any rights they have so obvious.

[+] TheOtherHobbes|5 months ago|reply
Immigration exploded after Brexit. While the official line was "Let's keep the riffraff out". the reality was that the Tories used Brexit to bring in plenty of cheap labour from specific countries, and the income requirements are applied very selectively.

Foreign students were also encouraged to study here and remain after studying. Initially even family reunion immigration was encouraged, although that's changed now.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/5579/live/8ea3a...

The UK has been playing this game for centuries - bringing in cheap foreign labour on the quiet, then using that as political leverage with "We will protect you from the foreign invasion" messaging.

[+] softwaredoug|5 months ago|reply
Polling in the US has swung in favor of immigration:

> a record-high 79% of U.S. adults say immigration is a good thing for the country.

It’s hard to separate what’s supported by the public and what are random hobby horses of the far right once they get in power.

Because the US has historically been relatively more positive to immigration I am skeptical that we would see the same reaction as in the UK or other countries in the long run (in the short term, it’s all a sht show)

https://news.gallup.com/poll/692522/surge-concern-immigratio...

[+] JuniperMesos|5 months ago|reply
> But a lot of skilled labour left anyway. Partly because the general atmosphere got unpleasant. But also highly paid people have spouses, children, parents and other relatives. Once you are told you barely cleared (very high) criteria, you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you.

Chain migration is an anti-immigration argument in the US - even if some particular immigrant is highly-skilled and would benefit the US from being a legal resident, that immigrant's family is probably not as impressive. Nonetheless, once the government gives legal residency to the highly-skilled immigrant, they will be highly motivated to try to get the rest of their family to the US as well. So the US should be careful about granting legal residency even to prospective immigrants whose credentials make them individually look good.

[+] mrtksn|5 months ago|reply
Yep, skilled people have options. When you are treating them as circus animals that constantly need to prove that they are worth the cage they will be put in and the food they will be fed, they just leave the circus.

Smart professional people desire non-hostile space where they can build a life. When a Russian scientist or Iranian doctor left their countries for London or Paris, they were't calculating for a net income increase, they were running away from an environment that didn't show a promise to allow them realize themselves. Lot's of white collar people are paid well below what they will make if they learn a JS library or do construction work because of their desire to fulfill themselves in a peaceful life and be respected. It is kind of similar to game devs being paid very little in respect to the complexity of the programming they do. If you break that magic, they aren't going to stay.

[+] llm_nerd|5 months ago|reply
> But a lot of skilled labour left anyway

The UK has had a "brain drain", but it's as much UK citizens as migrants. Economic migrants migrate.

> But also highly paid people have spouses, children, parents and other relatives. Once you are told you barely cleared (very high) criteria, you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you.

Skilled immigration is sold in almost all of the West as a necessary demographic cure. The classic "we're getting older and there is a labour shortage of working age people". The retired parents were never a part of the deal, and are of no interest to almost any Western country. Obvious given that it completely annihilates the justification for bringing people in in the first place.

So if these skilled workers aren't moving to the UK because they can't bring their retired parents, then presumably they aren't also choosing the US, Canada, Germany, etc., given the same situation.

Canada does have a family reunification program but it is not only spectacularly unpopular among the Canadian public and likely to fade away, it allows for a tiny number per year.

[+] gdulli|5 months ago|reply
It should be the most obvious thing in the world that whether you take a fundamentally welcoming and positive mindset towards people vs. a negative and unwelcoming mindset, the effects of either will propagate and magnify themselves over time.

But when you're insecure the feelings you get from the latter are more comforting in the short term.

[+] saaaaaam|5 months ago|reply
It wasn’t that similar though, because there was a long long period of transition, not “we are doing this on two days time and if you’ve not got £100k hard luck!”
[+] bambax|5 months ago|reply
This is probably a good thing for nations providing the bulk of high skilled labor, namely India and China. Their best and brightest will tend to leave less.

Much has been said about Trump, but his main quality is this: he's a foot-gun artist.

[+] ezst|5 months ago|reply
This, so much. Not the UK, but another western-European country that has slowly succumbed to right-wing rhetoric and fear-mongering. There, legal immigration has continuously been a boon to the economy, but each politician having had to "one-up" the previous one in terms of "tightening immigration" and "looking tough" has only made legal immigration increasingly miserable, and put off skilled/high-earning global workers whose presence was desired.

Of course, nothing has changed for the illegal ones: they haven't (and won't) see the increased burden of legal migration of which they are oblivious. Overall things are only getting worse, and I hate that there's no attempt to having a honest and transparent debate and discourse on the matter.

[+] arrowsmith|5 months ago|reply
There are not "high criteria" to immigrate to the UK post-Brexit. The minimum salary threshold is £26k, barely higher than minimum wage. The list of eligible occupations is a joke and includes such desperately understaffed occupations as "homeopaths" and "reiki healers". The skilled worker visa only requires B1 English, at which level you'll struggle to communicate in many professional settings. Net immigration (legal and illegal) exploded after Brexit and is still higher today than it was in 2016 when we had the vote.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[+] someperson|5 months ago|reply
> you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you

The immigration system should be designed to block retired parents from moving country to live with their working age adult children who have migrated.

One reason to have immigration is to improve a country's dependency ratio: the ratio of working age population to children and retirees.

The ideal immigrants are young well-educated parents that can stay in the workforce for 40+ years with healthy children that are just about to enter the school system.

That way the receiving country didn't need to invest in educating the parents originally, don't need to pay the healthcare costs of very young infants, and it provides the best possible addition to the the receiving country's demographic structure so the host country benefits from a whole working life of tax payments and all the value created by their work output.

The economic case for even skilled immigration is far less compelling for a receiving nation without such restrictions on immigrating retirees.

[+] HippoBaro|5 months ago|reply
It was nighttime in Singapore when the ruling was announced. My husband and I scrambled to find a flight back. The best we could find, at any price, lands 25mins after the deadline.

We are on our way there.

[+] cs_throwaway|5 months ago|reply
I think a lot of people arguing about the H1B visa are talking past each other.

- There is no doubt a large volume of abuse by tech consulting companies. It's likely even worse than it looks, because the H1Bs in the U.S. are to support even larger teams offshore. I don't understand why we can't just blacklist these companies.

- Some of medium-skill hires, e.g., did a 2 year MS degree from random university in the U.S., are also a bit sus, in my opinion.

- I'll bet several of Zuck's recent $10M Superintelligence Team hires were at least briefly on an H1B before getting their EB-1A Green Cards.

- Same for a lot of faculty in computer science -- you can get an EB-1B Green Card quickly, but you have to spend some time on an H1B. You cannot convert directly from a student visa. The O-1 exists, but is not on most people's radars in academia. I think likely because the legal fees are prohibitively expensive. (I have heard $40K+)

[+] thisisit|5 months ago|reply
To add lot of people don't seem to have read the full announcement. It says Secretary of Homeland Security can grant exception. That means companies like Tesla are more likely to get a pass - because manufacturing jobs and what not.

Also, HN is hyper focused on tech consulting. H1Bs are used by doctors too especially in rural America. Doctors apply for J1 waiver and then get H1B for work. From what I have heard some places the only available doctor is an immigrant on H1B. This is going to devastate medical teams.

[+] surfingdino|5 months ago|reply
> - There is no doubt a large volume of abuse by tech consulting companies. It's likely even worse than it looks, because the H1Bs in the U.S. are to support even larger teams offshore. I don't understand why we can't just blacklist these companies.

I wish we could ban offshore IT consultancies dumping "talent". Unfortunately politicians will not support such ban, because those consultancies help corporate donors keep the wages down. If the government banned suppliers who use offshore consultancies from bidding for government contracts those outfits would disappear overnight.

[+] EasyMark|5 months ago|reply
This fee doesn't make any sense to be honest. It's another "simple solution" by the current regime. Just like tariffs and "illegal immigration bad" . It's insane what Americans will put up with. Everything's a nail when you have a sledgehammer I guess.
[+] insane_dreamer|5 months ago|reply
You can do J1 -> O-1 -> EB-1/2 the legal fees are not $40k, more like $5-10k (5 years ago)
[+] xyzelement|5 months ago|reply
Skimming the articles I don't see the source of the 15 hour urgency. Seems like the fee is on new visas - what's promoting Microsoft to send this notice to existing people?
[+] DashAnimal|5 months ago|reply
Per the proclamation:

"the entry into the United States of aliens as nonimmigrants to perform services in a specialty occupation under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b), is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000 — subject to the exceptions set forth in subsection (c) of this section. This restriction shall expire, absent extension, 12 months after the effective date of this proclamation, which shall be 12:01 a.m. eastern daylight time on September 21, 2025."

So it applies to all H1Bs. Subsection c is limited (but will be interesting to see how it plays out) so I don't bother sharing.

Actual proclamation here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest...

[+] jonpurdy|5 months ago|reply
Reading a thread on r/immigration involving multiple immigration lawyers and corporate lawyers※, the Executive Order wording is apparently unclear and leaves CBP agents with discretion (which can obviously cause confusion and not apply the same rules to everyone).

Much easier for the companies to recommend/insist on folks fly back before the deadline to avoid issues.

※ - https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/comments/1nlo8jd/h1b_pr...

[+] rawgabbit|5 months ago|reply
The executive order said to bar re-entry unless the $100k was paid. This is the enforcement mechanism. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest...

     Quote: Section 1.  Restriction on Entry.  (a)  Pursuant to sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), the entry into the United States of aliens as nonimmigrants to perform services in a specialty occupation under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b), is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000 — subject to the exceptions set forth in subsection (c) of this section.
[+] cm2187|5 months ago|reply
In the french news (https://www.lefigaro.fr/international/les-frais-du-visa-a-10...) it seems the white house clarified it is only for new visa and one time only.

[edit] also: https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/international/2025/09/21...

[+] hvb2|5 months ago|reply
That's not how laws and executive orders work? The text of the order matters, not some opinion of some admin official

That's why, typically, this would have been reviewed and planned.

[+] pavlov|5 months ago|reply
Not just vacations, but also business trips.

They come up with these rules on a Saturday morning. If you’re a visa holder outside the country and you don’t return to the US by Sunday, you’ll be asked to pay a $100k ransom to re-enter the country where your life and work and children are.

Amazing level of contempt for ordinary foreigners who came into the country legally.

[+] mrmansano|5 months ago|reply
Anecdotally, although I'm sure it's happening to more people.

I'm Brazilian, I work in the US on H1-B. I'm on vacations in Brazil with my wife and kids, one in school age.

I also came to renew my visa stamp, as I had my extension approved not long ago. My visa is valid from September 21st, so, same day as this proclamation takes effect. And I can't go back before that because my visa is not valid.

My flight was scheduled for tomorrow, and I would land in US by Sep 22nd. Of course, I rescheduled that to not lose my ticket.

I left food in the freezer, car in the garage, and my son is missing classes. And all my family's stuff in the house. Now, I have no idea what will happen, I can't go in to get my things. At least the company is giving support, and I couldn't be more thankful.

But the thing that makes me sadder is the blatant racism towards my Indian friends, reddit and x was swarmed by an army of people that was enabled to call them... whatever they want... It's a good time to be offline now.

The H1-B program has its problems, and I understand the whole frustration with the job market, but this is not they way to solve anything.

[+] tempodox|5 months ago|reply
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest... :

> … the effective date of this proclamation, which shall be 12:01 a.m. eastern daylight time on September 21, 2025.

That doesn’t leave much time. I would have expected that current visa holders wouldn’t fall under this rule. Shouldn’t it be a legal standard not to apply new rules retroactively?

[+] dang|5 months ago|reply
Related ongoing threads:

US Gov acknowledges that 100K fee does not apply to existing H-1B visas holders [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45318060 - Sept 2025 (43 comments)

Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45314906 - Sept 2025 (108 comments)

New H-1B visa fee will not apply to existing holders, official says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45316226 - Sept 2025 (3 comments)

Also recent and related:

Trump to impose $100k fee for H-1B worker visas, White House says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45305845 - Sept 2025 (1675 comments)

The H-1B Visa Program and Its Impact on the U.S. Economy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45309740 - Sept 2025 (51 comments)

[+] malkia|5 months ago|reply
There are a lot of bad angles to this, here is another one: What happens to people's social security they've build for the years they've been on H1B? (Or J1, etc. before that)? It's technically gone...
[+] srameshc|5 months ago|reply
I can just feel for someone who travelled back home for a family emergency and hope they have the means and courage to leave the family and come back.
[+] treetalker|5 months ago|reply
GOP seems to prefer choosing to defect in the prisoner's dilemma.
[+] Surac|5 months ago|reply
So USA demands its slaves to stay inside?
[+] Scoundreller|5 months ago|reply
Oh great, some of our vendors work in USA on H1bs and when they need to send someone on-site to us (in Canada), they send the Canadian.

I guess we'll be seeing someone new and unfamiliar...

(edit: the vendor workers might be in USA on TN status and might be okay for now, I haven't asked)

[+] gigatexal|5 months ago|reply
This effectively makes off shoring cheaper no? Just bypass the H1B thing altogether and hire folks in India, or Mexico, or Canada.

It gets harder and harder to have skin pigment, speak another language, or god forbid want to come to the USA under this insane administration.

[+] orwin|5 months ago|reply
Like I said when they put workers in chains two weeks ago, shitting on foreign workers and all the cheerleaders here and probably on less liberal outlets are presenting an image of the US individualist culture that I now have to acknowledge.

Having to say to 'UPR' and other anti-atlantist militants 'you were absolutely right' was difficult I will admit.

[+] tom89999|5 months ago|reply
Get your relatives and family out of this shithole and start a new life somewhere else. Why paying taxes for fat crooks? Why working your ass off for major companiel that dont pay taxes? I more and more understand people leaving their home country.
[+] notmyjob|5 months ago|reply
Doesn’t seem fair to the companies that employ these people. It’s obviously a hidden tax on large tech companies like x and Tesla that hire a lot of global talent.