[elbasti]

I work in the datacenter space. The power consumption of a data center is the "canonical" way to describe their size.

Almost every component in a datacenter is upgradeable—in fact, the compute itself only has a lifespan of ~5 years—but the power requirements are basically locked-in. A 200MW data center will always be a 200MW data center, even though the flops it computes will increase.

The fact that we use this unit really nails the fact that AI is basically refining energy.

[aurareturn]

  A 200MW data center will always be a 200MW data center, even though the flops it computes will increase.

This here underscores how important TSMC's upcoming N2 node is. It only increases chip density by ~1.15x (very small relative to previous nodes advancements) but it uses 36% less energy at the same speed as N3 or 18% faster than N3 at the same energy. It's coming at the right time for AI chips used by consumers and energy starved data centers.

N2 is shaping up to be TSMC's most important node since N7.

[alberth]

> N2 is shaping up to be TSMC's most important node since N7

Is it?

N2, from an energy & perf improvement seems on par with any generation node update.

          N2:N3   N3:N5  N5:N7
  Power   ~30%    ~30%    ~30%
  Perf    ~15%    ~15%    ~15%

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-reveals-2nm-fabricati...

[pseudosavant]

I love that term "refining energy". We need to plan for massive growth in electricity production to have the supply to refine.

[tmalsburg2]

Sounds smart but it’s abusing the semantics of “refine” and is therefore ultimately vacuous.

[jacquesm]

It is the opposite of refining energy. Electrical energy is steak, what leaves the datacenter is heat, the lowest form of energy that we might still have a use for in that concentration (but most likely we are just dumping it in the atmosphere).

Refining is taking a lower quality energy source and turning it into a higher quality one.

What you could argue is that it adds value to bits. But the bits themselves, their state is what matters, not the energy that transports them.

[elbasti]

I think you're pushing the metaphor a bit far, but the parallel was to something like ore.

A power plant "mines" electron, which the data center then refines into words. or whatever. The point is that energy is the raw material that flows into data centers.

[reubenmorais]

All life is basically refining energy - standing up to entropy and temporarily winning the fight.

[HPsquared]

It's all about putting the entropy somewhere else and keeping your own little area organised.

[antihipocrat]

Yes, in a very local context it appears so, but net entropy across the system from life's activities is increased

[ithkuil]

"the purpose of life is to hydrogenate carbon dioxide"

-- Michael Russel

[casey2]

Where do the cards go after 5 years? I don't see a large surplus of mid sized cloud providers coming to buy them (cause AI isn't profitable), Maybe other countries (possibly illegally)? Flood the consumer market with cards they can't use? TSMCs' more than doubled packaging and they are planning on doubling again

[protocolture]

This.

A local to me ~40W datacenter used to be in really high demand, and despite having excess rack space, had no excess power. It was crazy.

[nixass]

40W - is that ant datacenter? :)

[pabs3]

> the power requirements are basically locked-in

Why is that? To do with the incoming power feed or something else?

[brendoelfrendo]

Basically, yes. When you stand up something that big, you need to work with the local utilities to ensure they have the capacity for what you're doing. While you can ask for more power later on, if the utilities can't supply it or the grid can't transport it, you're SOL.

[jl6]

Cooling too. A datacenter that takes 200MW in has to dissipate 200MW of heat to somewhere.

[djtriptych]

guessing massive capital outlays and maybe irreversible site selection/preparation concerns.

[kulahan]

That's pretty interesting. Is it just because the power channels are the most fundamental aspect of the building? I'm sorta surprised you can't rip out old cables and drop in new ones, or something to that effect, but I also know NOTHING about electricity.

[libraryofbabel]

Not an expert, but it’s probably related to cooling. Every joule of that electricity that goes in must also leave the datacenter as heat. And the whole design of a datacenter is centered around cooling requirements.

[pjc50]

Refining it into what? Stock prices?