WingNews logo WingNews GitHub [2]
top | item 45346014

Bach Cello Suites (2024)

228 points| bondarchuk | 6 months ago |bachcellosuites.co.uk | reply

85 comments

order
[+] gregorymichael|6 months ago|reply
I love this so much, as someone who tends to listen to a single piece of music on repeat (especially while coding) and has spent a lot of time with Yo-Yo Ma's "Six Evolutions".

Loved learning about the deep diversity of recordings from other artists, the ambiguous history of the music, and that there's a question if the music was even originally written for a cello!

Also loved that the site recommends different recordings based on the mood of interpretation.

This all reminds me of the HN favorite, "Reality has a lot of detail." Feel like I just discovered fractal complexity in a piece of music I naively thought I knew well.

[+] jacquesm|6 months ago|reply
Different renderings of classical pieces can be night-and-day difference. There are some pieces that have been worn grey from over exposure and then you hear that one special version and it's like it is a completely new piece all over again.
[+] mtalantikite|6 months ago|reply
My year in review music roundups from Spotify or Apple Music have always been totally useless because I code to Steve Reich's Music for 18 Musicians almost daily. Something about that composition just gets me in the zone and I've been using it to study or work to since I first heard it in college 20+ years ago.
[+] antognini|6 months ago|reply
The Bach Cello Suites are deservedly famous, but if you are looking to branch out to other solo cello music I recommend listening to Zoltan Kodály's Sonata for Unaccompanied Cello. After the Bach Cello Suites it is probably the most important piece in the solo cello repertoire. One of the unusual features of the piece is that it calls for the bottom two strings to be tuned down half a step which gives the cello a darker timbre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phygv_Et9sQ

[+] edvardas|6 months ago|reply
When tuning down those two strings, would the player need to "relearn" the positions of fingers on the strings when playing? Or would they play at the same positions and ignore the conflict in expected and actual sound?
[+] ohazi|6 months ago|reply
Hey, Joe! This is one of my favorite cello pieces -- so hauntingly beautiful. I've probably listened to Janos Starker's performance dozens of times, but I also liked Inbal Segev's version. Parts of it seemed brighter somehow.
[+] dbalatero|6 months ago|reply
My mom is performing the Kodaly next weekend–weird timing to see this on HN!
[+] nathan_douglas|6 months ago|reply
Thank you for sharing this; I'm really enjoying it a lot.
[+] arduanika|6 months ago|reply
Beautiful pieces.

My understanding is that for centuries after Bach's death, they were disregarded. They were seen almost as etudes, for cellists to use for practice to hone their technique. They didn't really gain their current status as respectable concert pieces until Pablo Casals dug them up in the early 20th century and produced his classic recordings.

[+] diego_moita|6 months ago|reply
> My understanding is that for centuries after Bach's death, they were disregarded.

Not exactly.

Bach died in 1750. At this time the "market" for music was going through big changes. In Bach's time the main customers for music were courts of barons and kings and municipalities. That's the career he had, a musikmeister.

But look deeper and you'll see an economic landscape changing: the rise of cities, merchants, financial capitalism, etc. A bourgeoisie was rising and consuming music in concert rooms, opera houses and for private playing. But this bourgeoisie had different tastes. They didn't have a deep musical instruction so they preferred more "pop" music: easy to listen, easy to play, easy to follow. Bach's music is the opposite of it. It was out of fashion.

Bach's sons followed this simplified style. Most of all, Carl Philip Emanuel Bach was big into it. He got so good at this that he became an instructor and mentor to both Mozart and Haydn.

But Carl never stopped adoring his father music and used Johan Sebastian Bach (his dad) material for teaching. So J.S. Bach was widely known and venerated among musicians, including Beethoven.

However, the public recognition of Bach's worth only began when Mendelssohn made public presentations of his masses, in 1829. But this was 37 years before Pablo Casals was born.

[+] kashunstva|6 months ago|reply
> they were disregarded.

As were the Partitas and Sonatas for unaccompanied violin. It wasn’t until the great 19th century violinist Joachim began playing them in recitals that they came to light again. Even then it was not widely accepted. I believe it may have been George Bernard Shaw who had pretty harsh words to say about the very idea of treating these works seriously. My daughter is preparing for her conservatory auditions; and these works are now compulsory literally everywhere!

[+] dublin|6 months ago|reply
FYI, We just had world-class cellist Steuart Pincombe here in Austin last month performing the last three Bach cello concertos along with three matched brews from the excellent local Lazarus brewery as part of his occcasional "Bach and Beer" performances.

He's a flat amazing cellist, and watching him perform that last concerto you really realize how hard he's working to get it done - it's a workout. Anyway, it was a really good evening. (FWIW, this was part of the Arts On Alexander program this year, which is one of Austin's lesser known gems of amazing live classical music performaces.

[+] bwv848|6 months ago|reply
IMO Rostropovich and Jian Wang[1] have the best recordings, two sides of the same coin. I never understand the hype of Yo-Yo Ma. And if you like Jian Wang, you would probably also like Viktoria Mullova's interpretation of Sonatas and Partitas

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCSqHFgSUhU&list=PL8Hi9pw3gE...

[+] pimeys|6 months ago|reply
I can highly recommend the William Skeen recordings of the Cello Suites, recorded and released by one of the best classical labels: Reference Recordings. You get the historically informed sound and the absolute best sound quality in one package.

https://referencerecordings.com/recording/the-six-cello-suit...

[+] edbaskerville|6 months ago|reply
Oh, it's...very new! Thanks for the recommendation.

Another recommendation: the recordings by the multigenre saxophonist Yasuaki Shimizu. It's insane. I won't give anything away, but in particular set aside some time to listen to the Menuets & Gigue from the first suite without any distractions.

https://yasuaki-shimizu.com/music/cello-suites-2/

I'm a cellist, played all the suites and always start with them when I return to the instrument after a hiatus. They've been analyzed to death, so my goal when playing is to avoid over-intellectualizing ("learn the changes, then forget them") and just try to take a different emotional journey each time (no way to say that without it sounding sappy), physically leading with my breath.

[+] djtango|6 months ago|reply
As someone who listens to a lot of "Classical" music (more late Classical, early Romantic if we're being specific) I've never really understood the modern universal appeal of Bach.

I find so much of his music quite impenetrable and kind of overwhelming. Things like the Cello Suites with their single line of music very demure. Whenever I try to listen to the Well Tempered Klavier as a set I'm quickly saturated by the third or fourth pair...

It's usually not until I sit down at the piano and play Bach and read the score that I'm then suddenly profoundly moved by the almost divine quality of his music and the "just so" genius writing of his music. But being truly honest I struggle to hear it at face value often - am I just slow / a poor listener?

[+] kjellsbells|6 months ago|reply
> am I just slow / a poor listener?

Don't fall into that trap. You like what you like. Bach wrote hundreds of pieces. There's no reason for anyone to "get" or "like" them all, or indeed any single one of them.

Personally, I like some of the piano and cello pieces but they only get played once or twice a year. Whereas his vocal works like the St John Passion and Ich habe genug from cantata BWV82 get played a lot. Everyone is different!

[+] f5ve|6 months ago|reply
I agree. I also get much more out of playing Bach than listening to him. I almost never listen to Bach for pleasure, but I know a few fugues and the like. Playing them makes you feel like a god; listening to them feels like an assault.

The exception, for me, is the Goldberg Variations which I find have a stately and refined beauty. It's one of very few in the classical canon that I find myself returning to over the years.

[+] ternaryoperator|6 months ago|reply
You're not alone. The British composer Arnold Bax once said "All Bach's last movements are like the running of a sewing machine."

That being said, I find his six sonatas and partitas for solo violin to be absolutely lumninous. The famous chaconne being truly sublime.

[+] Sparkle-san|6 months ago|reply
I asked Claude Code who the greatest composer of all time was (mostly on a lark) expecting something very non-committal that weighed the accomplishments of the various great composers. Instead, I got back a one word answer: Bach.
[+] phoh|6 months ago|reply
regular claude is not so concise, or decisive
[+] nathan_douglas|6 months ago|reply
One of the pages mentioned a 'cello da spalla, which I hadn't heard of before, so I found this YouTube video introducing it and playing part of a prelude on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD4kNY34AoE

I enjoy instruments that, for whatever reason, seem to have been discarded by progress - viola da gamba, mandolincello, etc. It's amazing how rich all of our musical traditions are, that we have so many delightful variations on so many lovely ideas.

[+] cml123|6 months ago|reply
Since you mention the viola da gamba, I'll mention that in the US, the Viola da Gamba Society of America[0] is keeping the tradition alive. I'm a rusty cellist and learned of the vdgsa a few years ago. They have an annual conclave for players of all levels to learn, play, and have a good time. There was a conclave about 2.5 hrs from my home, and it was advertised as free for beginners, with the option to rent an instrument for the duration of the event across ~ a week. I also play the bass guitar and double bass, which like the gamba family are tuned in fourths vs fifths for the violin family, so I figured I'd show up and try my hand at the instrument.

They are a friendly and welcoming community maintaining a rental network in the US for the different types of violas da gamba. They have a strong interest as an organization in funding the continued scholarship, performance, and community for these forgotten instruments. It was very cool. I've since gotten my hands on a rental bass viol, though I haven't had as much time for it as I'd like.

[0] https://www.vdgsa.org/

[+] __df__|6 months ago|reply 

  number of bach cello suite recordings by decade parsed from the 'a-z' page:

  1940s | # (n=1) (* Casals, 1948)
  1950s | ## (n=4)
  1960s | ##### (n=10)
  1970s | ####### (n=14)
  1980s | ######## (n=16)
  1990s | ###################### (n=41)
  2000s | ############################## (n=57)
  2010s | ################################################## (n=92)
  2020s | ################### (n=35)

  (*) notable recording
[+] lagrange77|6 months ago|reply
Awesome, i love listening to Bach while developing.

While you're here, what other classical music can you recommend, especially for listening while working/focusing?

For me, it's currently

- Max Richter, discovered recently and he is fantastic

- The 'New Classical Essentials' playlist in Apple Music

- Brahms, especially String Sextet No. 1 (warning: can make Vulcans cry)

[+] edbaskerville|6 months ago|reply
I wish I could listen to classical music while using my brain. I can't. I end up listening to the music.

I've been listening to Scarlatti keyboard sonatas recently. They're great. He was born the same year as Bach.

[+] kjellsbells|6 months ago|reply
I love the Schubert song cycles, like Winterreise. There's enough overall stability to get into flow state but variety across each song.

I'm probably a dinosaur but I have yet to find a version better than the very old Fischer-Dieskau/Gerald Moore combo.

[+] Gehinnn|6 months ago|reply
I wish Spotify would allow me to easily compare the same classical pieces with different recordings!