If we’re talking about a reset, then the EU should ban Google/Apple/Amazon/Huawei/Xiaomi/Meta/etc products and services in their entirety, and finance/incentivize local companies to provide replacements.
As a EU citizen I don’t see why those companies should have the disproportionate amount of control and oversight in our daily lives they have today while our bureaucracies are stuck in a constant game of cat and mouse against them, as they have proven countless times they see EU regulation as hurdles to be worked around rather than fundamental rules to play by.
We need that reset in America too. These companies are too big and powerful. There is no fair free market with them just due to their size. Let alone anti competitive actions or lobbying or regulatory capture.
> finance/incentivize local companies to provide replacements
The EU has been trying to do that for as long as I can remember and they have little to show for it. What reason is there to believe this will suddenly produce useful results?
There are many EU citizens who don't hold your opinion. Are they allowed to do business with the these entities on their own terms? Why can't you just de-google and de-apple and de-meta and let other people make their own decisions?
We keep on hearing those nationalism-protectionist rackets proposed as if that will produce something better than an also-ran reinventing the wheel. And expecting to sell internationally after denying the world the same chance? You aren't that special.
Saying that they need first for there to be no alternatives and then they will produce something better should raise some major red flags. You wouldn't accept an exclusivity contract of that nature with your grocery store but accepting it for your communications? Not to mention the real reason for such protectionism goes unspoken: more government spying and backdoors and more censorship and control. That was why China rolled their own.
sucks that market forces doesn't allow a lone developer to be noticed against one of these companies because people refuse to spend time to try something new. as if time costs money. if we spend time on marketing we will be worse developers. then be surprised when one person takes down entire sector.
> If we’re talking about a reset, then the EU should ban Google/Apple/Amazon/Huawei/Xiaomi/Meta/etc products and services in their entirety, and finance/incentivize local companies to provide replacements.
I don't think you appreciate quite how much easier it is to write down rules and use your populace as economic hostages to get fines out of companies created in places with good economic policies, than it is to make your own stuff internally.
The same can be said about the EU bureaucracies, why do they have a disproportionate amount of control and oversight in daily lives of EU citizens?
We need a full reset from them. Countries should get their powers back. Take it back from the non elected EU bureaucrats.
There are some very worrisome things going on in the EU with Chat Control, Ministry of Truth, Digital ID Systems, and Central Bank Digital Currencies.
Each individual piece will be introduced to fix something or prevent something. But it is a slippery slope to also use it for something else, and more and more. Before we know it we will live in a continent that is ruled by an authoritarian mob like in China.
The fact that companies like Google are complaining (while pretending like they’re looking out for consumers - which is unsavory) is a great signal indicator that this is going to disrupt monopolistic / anti-consumer business practice's. Good.
You know it can be both, right? Standing up to tech giants can be a good pretext to introduce new taxes, create new smaller monopolies who happen to be your friends, spy on the masses, etc.
But it’s all cool, we are standing up for the tech feudalists.
on Android by forcing us to remove our legitimate safeguards that protect users’ security and safety
All you want is complete control, as evidenced by your intention to lock down devices against their actual owners. Google is effectively an unelected global government at this point. Piss off!
But also the EU wants to add chat control so they can read all your encrypted messages so maybe you _dont_ want them to have a say in how Android safeguards work?
Yes, time for a reset. A reset of all the influence foreign companies have on my country! It is many the times I have daydreamed of seizing their assets and pushing them out... Goodbye Apple, goodbye Google!
It's interesting to see the number of folks apparently in favor of DMA and the strict regulatory environment in EU. Genuinely curious: what is the concrete benefit for users (and does it offset the negatives)? And does this foster a healthy and thriving environment for innovation?
In my liberal view it sounds awful for users and entrepreneurs alike. Wondering what are the arguments in favor (other than "apple/google = bad").
E.g.
Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information.
People in Europe don't have the automatic anti-regulation sentiment that US has. Regulations, at least from consumer perspective, seem to be working pretty well in the EU.
- My mobile operator wanted to charge me $6/MB for data roaming, until the anti-business EU regulation killed the golden goose. Roaming is free across EU. The mobile operator is still in business.
- USB-C not just on iPhone, but also all the crappy gadgets that used to be micro-USB. Consumer prices on electronics probably rose by $0.01 per unit.
- Chip & pin and NFC contactless payments were supported everywhere many years before ApplePay adopted them. European regulators forced banks to make fraud their problem and cooperate to fix it.
- The card payment system got upgraded despite card interchange fees being legally capped to ~0.3%. The bureaucrats killed an innovative business model of ever-increasing merchant fees given back to card owners as cashback, which made everyone else paying the same prices with cash the suckers subsidising the card businesses.
- Apple insinuates they only give 1 year of warranty, but it magically becomes 2 years if you remind them they're in the EU.
Just a day ago, we've had Google's idea of "useful results" frontpaged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45366566. Between this, the malicious restrictions being added to Android, and countless other things, I'm genuinely surprised anyone still believes them to be acting in users' best interests.
> In my liberal view it sounds awful for users and entrepreneurs alike
curious to read what arguments you have against or in favor?
From what I understand, in European countries (inc EU) both public and private sector rely predominantly on US and Asian imports for Computer Hardware, Software and Digital Services.
With DMA, they're looking to level the playing fields for local entrepreneurs, and likewise for small firms from say, developing economies such as in Africa or Middle East for example (the neighborhood).
Also worth noting, that, Europe has a massive problem with brain-drain and a rapidly aging population. If local entrepreneurs can't compete with Asian or US tech giants, they have to move to Asia or the USA.
In your quote, aren’t those the same thing? Isn’t Google just playing intermediary and integrating it onto their website and claiming that’s different?
> Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information.
Lmao this is just such a big pile of nothing. Lets let Google and Apple run unchecked so consumers can see a link to a hotel. Yes. Good deal.
"Regulatory burdens and uncertainty are delaying our launch of new products, like our latest AI features, by up to a year after they launch in the rest of the world."
The AI features cause the same problems they are claiming the DMA creates...
IIRC its technically not killing sideloading, but enforcing a required signature where you need to go through google so that the software can be sideloaded... So they can say that they aren't technically killing sideloading :)
The companies affected whining about is a sign that it may actually have some effect.
Remember: New laws are made because someone has been acting in ways society agrees they shouldn’t have been and this DEFINITELY applies to big tech companies. It’s a testament to how bad your behavior must have been if we go through all the trouble to come up with a law to forbid it.
And by society you mean other biggish companies that feel they cannot compete, right? (Whether they can actually compete is true or not, it probably is, but my point is it’s not the general citizen lambda that have these beefs.)
The EU should tell Goggle to go take a long walk off a short dock.
>The DMA’s biggest challenge remains: How do we boost innovation and deliver cutting-edge products to Europe while navigating complex and untested new rules?
Why should Europe want to cave to Goggle's desire to deepen its clawhold on Europe's market? To help it extend its monopoly deep into the rest of civilization?
Reset is the right word. Break-up these mega corps that naturally have become extractive to the point they themselves starting to rot. If "break-up" is too strong, call it a "reset".
Oh of course Google is pushing this too. I thought Apple was dumb to push this, makes more sense as a multilateral thing.
I’m sure the EU won’t take a dim view of this at all.
“Senator, we’d like racketeering laws repealed. They’re making running our protection rackets much harder. How are we supposed to innovate for our customers if you keep making new kinds of threats illegal?”
> Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information.
That's exactly what "leveling the playing field" means, which the Author also acknowledged in his introduction.
By forcing Google to link to intermediaries, it takes away the power and monopoly of Google and give competitors a chance.
This post is nothing but lobbying for Google and against the DMA with shady and unscrupulous arguments.
> Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information.
Well, it doesn't seem to be true because a quick search right now shows hotel rates and flights from the hotel or airline's own site and various aggregators. Is Google breaking the law or what am I missing?
> The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion.
This sounds incredibly suspicious - what is Google omitting here? I've never heard of the DMA forbidding direct results.
Man what bullshit. Here's the owner (and 4th author of the paper) [0] of the consultancy that authored the paper [1] they reference. She (almost certainly) has Meta stock!
[+] [-] gyomu|6 months ago|reply
As a EU citizen I don’t see why those companies should have the disproportionate amount of control and oversight in our daily lives they have today while our bureaucracies are stuck in a constant game of cat and mouse against them, as they have proven countless times they see EU regulation as hurdles to be worked around rather than fundamental rules to play by.
[+] [-] SilverElfin|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|6 months ago|reply
I’m not arguing the status who is good, more “is it too late to fix?”
[+] [-] jandrewrogers|6 months ago|reply
The EU has been trying to do that for as long as I can remember and they have little to show for it. What reason is there to believe this will suddenly produce useful results?
[+] [-] dnissley|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] pabs3|6 months ago|reply
No thanks, just fund local-only and self-hosted open source instead.
[+] [-] kristo|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Nasrudith|6 months ago|reply
Saying that they need first for there to be no alternatives and then they will produce something better should raise some major red flags. You wouldn't accept an exclusivity contract of that nature with your grocery store but accepting it for your communications? Not to mention the real reason for such protectionism goes unspoken: more government spying and backdoors and more censorship and control. That was why China rolled their own.
[+] [-] hulitu|5 months ago|reply
Because they pay for it. Sincerely, the EC.
[+] [-] jjani|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] journal|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] piekvorst|6 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] philipallstar|6 months ago|reply
I don't think you appreciate quite how much easier it is to write down rules and use your populace as economic hostages to get fines out of companies created in places with good economic policies, than it is to make your own stuff internally.
[+] [-] peterspath|6 months ago|reply
We need a full reset from them. Countries should get their powers back. Take it back from the non elected EU bureaucrats.
There are some very worrisome things going on in the EU with Chat Control, Ministry of Truth, Digital ID Systems, and Central Bank Digital Currencies.
Each individual piece will be introduced to fix something or prevent something. But it is a slippery slope to also use it for something else, and more and more. Before we know it we will live in a continent that is ruled by an authoritarian mob like in China.
[+] [-] neverkn0wsb357|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] csomar|6 months ago|reply
But it’s all cool, we are standing up for the tech feudalists.
[+] [-] piekvorst|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] userbinator|6 months ago|reply
All you want is complete control, as evidenced by your intention to lock down devices against their actual owners. Google is effectively an unelected global government at this point. Piss off!
[+] [-] crowbahr|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] pornel|6 months ago|reply
Ask your lawyers? They can parkour through the most complex laws when you need European tax loopholes.
[+] [-] MBCook|6 months ago|reply
It’s not like the DMA outlaws software. It deals with certain practices, and makes certain business models pretty untenable.
But it doesn’t just ban everything.
[+] [-] maldonad0|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] crazygringo|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] HPsquared|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] piekvorst|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] number6|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway0223|6 months ago|reply
In my liberal view it sounds awful for users and entrepreneurs alike. Wondering what are the arguments in favor (other than "apple/google = bad").
E.g.
Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information.
[+] [-] pornel|6 months ago|reply
- My mobile operator wanted to charge me $6/MB for data roaming, until the anti-business EU regulation killed the golden goose. Roaming is free across EU. The mobile operator is still in business.
- USB-C not just on iPhone, but also all the crappy gadgets that used to be micro-USB. Consumer prices on electronics probably rose by $0.01 per unit.
- Chip & pin and NFC contactless payments were supported everywhere many years before ApplePay adopted them. European regulators forced banks to make fraud their problem and cooperate to fix it.
- The card payment system got upgraded despite card interchange fees being legally capped to ~0.3%. The bureaucrats killed an innovative business model of ever-increasing merchant fees given back to card owners as cashback, which made everyone else paying the same prices with cash the suckers subsidising the card businesses.
- Apple insinuates they only give 1 year of warranty, but it magically becomes 2 years if you remind them they're in the EU.
[+] [-] mzajc|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] al_be_back|6 months ago|reply
curious to read what arguments you have against or in favor?
From what I understand, in European countries (inc EU) both public and private sector rely predominantly on US and Asian imports for Computer Hardware, Software and Digital Services.
With DMA, they're looking to level the playing fields for local entrepreneurs, and likewise for small firms from say, developing economies such as in Africa or Middle East for example (the neighborhood).
Also worth noting, that, Europe has a massive problem with brain-drain and a rapidly aging population. If local entrepreneurs can't compete with Asian or US tech giants, they have to move to Asia or the USA.
[+] [-] MBCook|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] FranzFerdiNaN|6 months ago|reply
Lmao this is just such a big pile of nothing. Lets let Google and Apple run unchecked so consumers can see a link to a hotel. Yes. Good deal.
[+] [-] sexeriy237|6 months ago|reply
The AI features cause the same problems they are claiming the DMA creates...
[+] [-] pabs3|6 months ago|reply
Isn't it Google killing sideloading, not the DMA?
[+] [-] marak830|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] NekkoDroid|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] solarkraft|6 months ago|reply
Remember: New laws are made because someone has been acting in ways society agrees they shouldn’t have been and this DEFINITELY applies to big tech companies. It’s a testament to how bad your behavior must have been if we go through all the trouble to come up with a law to forbid it.
[+] [-] frizlab|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] 8bitsrule|6 months ago|reply
>The DMA’s biggest challenge remains: How do we boost innovation and deliver cutting-edge products to Europe while navigating complex and untested new rules?
Why should Europe want to cave to Goggle's desire to deepen its clawhold on Europe's market? To help it extend its monopoly deep into the rest of civilization?
[+] [-] PedroBatista|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] rs186|6 months ago|reply
Something says to me that DMA is working as intended.
[+] [-] dang|6 months ago|reply
Apple Demands EU Repeal the Digital Markets Act - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45380690 - Sept 2025 (64 comments)
Apple says it may stop shipping to the EU - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 - Sept 2025 (145 comments)
The Digital Markets Act's Impacts on EU Users - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45368848 - Sept 2025 (3 comments)
[+] [-] MBCook|6 months ago|reply
I’m sure the EU won’t take a dim view of this at all.
“Senator, we’d like racketeering laws repealed. They’re making running our protection rackets much harder. How are we supposed to innovate for our customers if you keep making new kinds of threats illegal?”
[+] [-] OutOfHere|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] 7bit|6 months ago|reply
That's exactly what "leveling the playing field" means, which the Author also acknowledged in his introduction.
By forcing Google to link to intermediaries, it takes away the power and monopoly of Google and give competitors a chance.
This post is nothing but lobbying for Google and against the DMA with shady and unscrupulous arguments.
[+] [-] veeti|6 months ago|reply
Well, it doesn't seem to be true because a quick search right now shows hotel rates and flights from the hotel or airline's own site and various aggregators. Is Google breaking the law or what am I missing?
[+] [-] woggy|6 months ago|reply
[+] [-] like_any_other|6 months ago|reply
This sounds incredibly suspicious - what is Google omitting here? I've never heard of the DMA forbidding direct results.
[+] [-] camgunz|6 months ago|reply
[0]: https://www.iicom.org/profile/dr-eliana-garces/
[1]: https://www.dmcforum.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/120625-F...
Break these companies the fuck up.