[mordymoop]

Broadly the critique is valid where it applies; I don’t know if it accurately captures the way most people are using LLMs to code, so I don’t know that it applies in most case.

My one concrete pushback to the article is that it states the inevitable end result of vibe coding is a messy unmaintainable codebase. This is empirically not true. At this point I have many vibecoded projects that are quite complex but work perfectly. Most of these are for my private use but two of them serve in a live production context. It goes without saying that not only do these projects work, but they were accomplished 100x faster than I could have done by hand.

Do I also have vibecoded projects that went of the rails? Of course. I had to build those to learn where the edges of the model’s capabilities are, and what its failure modes are, so I can compensate. Vibecoding a good codebase is a skill. I know how to vibecode a good, maintainable codebase. Perhaps this violates your definition of vibecoding; my definition is that I almost never need to actually look at the code. I am just serving as a very hands-on manager. (Though I can look at the code if I need to - have 20 years of coding experience. But if I find that I need to look at the code, something has already gone badly wrong.)

Relevant anecdote: A couple of years ago I had a friend who was incredibly skilled at getting image models to do things that serious people asserted image models definitely couldn’t do at the time. At that time there were no image models that could get consistent text to appear in the image, but my friend could always get exactly the text you wanted. His prompts were themselves incredible works of art and engineering, directly grabbing hold of the fundamental control knobs of the model that most users are fumbling at.

Here’s the thing: any one of us can now make an image that is better than anything he was making at the time. Better compositionality, better understanding of intent, better text accuracy. We do this out of the box and without any attention paid to promoting voodoo at all. The models simply got that much better.

In a year or two, my carefully cultivated expertise around vibecoding will be irrelevant. You will get results like mine by just telling the model what you want. I assert this with high confidence. This is not disappointing to me, because I will be taking full advantage of the bleeding edge of capabilities throughout that period of time. Much like my friend, I don’t want to be good at managing AIs, I want to realize my vision.

[wilsonnb3]

100x is such a crazy claim to me - you’re saying you can do in 4 days what would have previously taken over a year. 5 weeks and you can accomplish what would have taken you a decade without LLMs.

[yeasku]

10 years of work and they have nothing to show.

[mordymoop]

Interesting point.

In most cases I would never have undertaken those projects at all without AI. One of the projects that is currently live and making me money took about 1 working day with Claude Code. It’s not something I ever would have started without Claude Code, because I know I wouldn’t have the time for it. I have built websites of similar complexity in the past, and since they were free-time type endeavors, they never quite crossed the finish line into commerciality even after several years of on-again-off-again work. So how do you account that with a time multiplier? 100x? Infinite speedup? The counterfactual is a world where the product doesn’t exist at all.

This is where most of the “speedup” happens. It’s more a speedup in overall effectiveness than raw “coding speed.” Another example is a web API for which I was able to very quickly release comprehensive client side SDKs in multiple languages. This is exactly the kind of deterministic boilerplate work LLMs are ideal for, and that would take a human a lot of typing, and looking up details for unfamiliar languages. How long would it have taken me to write SDKs in all those languages by hand? I don’t really know, I simply wouldn’t have done it, I would have just done one SDK in Python and said good enough.

If you really twist my arm and ask me to estimate the speedup on some task that I would have done either way, then yeah I still think a 100x speedup is the right order of magnitude, if we’re talking about Claude Code with Opus 4.1 specifically. In the past I spent about a five years very carefully building a suite of tools for managing my simulation work and serving as a pre/post-processor. Obviously this wasn’t full-time work on the code itself, but the development progressed across that timeframe. I recently threw all that out and replaced it with stuff I rebuilt in about a week with AI. In this case I was leveraging a lot of the learnings I gleaned from the first time I built it, so it’s not a fair one-to-one comparison, but you’re really never going to see a pure natural experiment for this sort of thing.

I think most people are in a professional position where they are sort of externally rate limited. They can’t imaging being 100x more effective. There would be no point to it. In many cases they already sit around doing nothing all day, because they are waiting for other people or processes. I’m lucky to not be in such a position. There’s always somewhere I can apply energy and see results, and so AI acts as an increasingly dramatic multiplier. This is a subtle but crucial point: if you never try to use AI in a way that would even hypothetically result in a big productivity multiplier (doing things you wouldn’t have otherwise done, doing a much more thorough job on the things you need to do, and trying to intentionally speed up your work on core tasks) then you can’t possibly know what the speedup factor is. People end up sounding like a medieval peasant suddenly getting access to a motorcycle and complaining that it doesn’t get them to the market faster, and then you find out that they never actually ride it.

I wonder, have you sat down and tried to vibecode something with Claude Code? If so, what kind of multiplier would you find plausible?

[kristianbrigman]

I had the AI implement two parallel implementations of the same thing in one project. Was lots of fun when it was 'fixing' the one that wasn't being used. So yeah, it can definitely muck up your codebase.

[ewoodrich]

Hah today I discovered Claude Code has been copy/pasting gigantic blocks of conditions and styling every time I ask it to add a "--new" flag or whatever in a once tiny now gigantic script I've been adding features to.

It worked fine until recently where I will ask it to tweak some behavior of a command with a flag and it does a diff with like hundreds of lines. So now it's struggling to catch every place it needs to change some hardcoded duplicate values it decided to copy/paste into two dozen random places in the code.

To be fair it is doing a decent job unfucking it now that I noticed and started explicitly showing it how ridiculously cumbersome and unmaintainable it made things with specific examples and refactoring. But if I hadn't bothered to finally sit down and read through it thoroughly it would have just become more broken and inconsistent as it grew exponentially.

[yeasku]

Can you share any of those projects with us?

[mordymoop]

Here's one. https://doofmovies.com/ With this project I'm sort of playing a game where I want to see how long I can go without finding out what language the backend is written in. I still don't know.