[dugmartin]

> You should also remove any students from classrooms whom routinely distract from others' learning.

You can't do this without getting sued (at least in Massachusetts). Source: my wife is a long-time elementary school teacher and my daughter works as a one-on-one aide while she is getting her teaching degree.

I don't want to start of flamewar but the current "push in" model created by educational bureaucrats creates a classroom environment that caters to the "timesinks". When you have a good chunk of the class on IEPs (individual education plans) that must be followed by law the "high flyers" (gifted kids) mostly get ignored due to time pressure.

Add socialization problems caused by COVID and reduced attention spans due to devices and chaos is always eminent. The stories I hear about daily classroom behavior would have blown my mind as a kid growing up in the 70s/80s.

I just wish that gifted kids could get the same access to IEPs that the other tail of the curve gets. However, when you base your educational outcomes on high stakes testing it is just natural to ignore the outliers above the mean and focus on the ones below it.

Again, I don't want to start a flamewar. Everyone has the right to an education.

[ProllyInfamous]

>I just wish that gifted kids could get the same access to IEPs that the other tail of the curve gets.

It wasn't until I was flunking out of medical school that I realized the truth to your statement. I never learned how to learn (my 90's public school's version of G/T was to let a small group of higher-IQ children do whatever they want, including nothing).

I feel that smaller class sizes would encourage smart-but-bored students to behave better (i.e. not be the class clown I was), out of fear of social isolation. In larger classes, it becomes more difficult for a single teacher (+aides) to impart learning habits upon ALL students.

[M95D]

>> You should also remove any students from classrooms whom routinely distract from others' learning.

> You can't do this without getting sued (at least in Massachusetts).

Yes you can. Group students by entrance exam results. Discussed here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45070793

[ProllyInfamous]

Great link / discussion, thanks!

I think social ostracism is an effective tool to deal with anti-social behaviors (at any age).

[slowmovintarget]

Also in Massachusetts...

We found that all the "best in the nation" schools here, with the possible exception of Boston Latin, aren't really all that great. The reason they're measured "best" is because all the parents hire tutors and private instructors on top of the regular school day. Russian math, science tutors, English, music instruction... you name it.

Systemically, this means the educators don't know how to teach. There are standout teachers, but by and large, the expectation from the "good" schools is that the kids are getting all the actual education outside the school system already. We found this to be true in Lexington, in Wellesley, pretty much all of the top schools in Mass. Boston Latin even has this problem, on top of the additional requirement to live within the city limits of Boston proper and hope you fit into one of their quota slots and your kid gets accepted.

Private schools are a little different, but their costs, and the small percentage of acceptance even if you bear the cost, will take your breath away.

All of this, and a host of other unpleasant features of public education, are why we chose homeschooling. It's been a huge sacrifice, but worth it.