> Don’t trash your employer, nor respond if they do. If they start that, say “I’m sorry, I can imagine why you’d feel that way, but I can’t continue this conversation.”
This is so bizarre. I would show a huge lack of empathy as well.
> Don’t feel like you have continue the conversation if they respond. You can if you want, but don’t feel obligated.
You: Sorry you got laid off. I'll miss chatting about your family.
Them: I understand why they did it, but this is tough. I've got a kid in college and another graduating high school this year. Hopefully I'll be able to find something in a few months. Know of anyone that's hiring?
Author here. I was trying to walk the line between two concepts in tension:
* you want to treat your former co-worker as a human being. That's the whole point of the post.
* it can be scary or shameful to reach out to someone who was just let go. You wonder things like "why them and not me, what did they do wrong, what if they react negatively, I'm busy with other stuff, oh man, is my job at risk". (The caveat here is of course that those who remain still have income and so the burden is worse for the laid off.)
This is why I think some folks don't do this simple, humane, outreach. But they should. So I was trying to address the latter worry.
I doubt most conversations go negative (as I mentioned, I've never had them do so). I wanted to give permission to people to reach out because that is important but also permission to stop the conversation if it reached a point they didn't feel comfortable.
I am sure I could have phrased it better.
W/r/t your example, I think most folks who sent the first message you suggest would respond. I think I would.
I think the point there was that, deciding in advance that you don't necessarily have to continue the conversation can unblock you from sending the mail in the first place. Thinking "if they reply back and say XYZ I wouldn't know how to respond" can be a reason people might not get in touch like TFA is suggesting.
I actually got an email like from an old co-worker after I was fired. It was done much in the vein of the advice in this post. It was short, friendly, and made no pretence about staying in touch. I gave a short, friendly response and that was that. I gotta say I actually really did appreciate it, and still do. Of course, I wasn’t exactly upset about being fired so I don’t know if this counts.
Agreed. The blog post starts off fairly well, with step 1 to being a good human being, but pivots ironically at the end to a list of ways not be a human being.
It feels more like how to do the minimum possible without doing absolutely nothing.
You might have been interested in continuing the conversation if the other person didn't descend into trash-talking first. I think that's the message the author is trying to convey.
But I agree with you that "I can't continue this conversation" is probably not the best way to respond, even in that case.
This isn't bad advise if the wording wasn't so robotic.
You can empathise with someone for being upset without contributing to further the discussion. In situations like this I normally redirect... So if I received a message like, "I'm really mad at X-Corp and Mr Bossman, I can't believe they got rid of Joe!", I'd probably reply, "it's sad, I hope he's doing alright".
As long as you're not saying "yeah, f** Bossman!" you're probably fine.
That's obviously assuming you want to avoid trashing your employer... I find these events are often times for reflection. It's okay to be critical if you feel strongly, but you should do that in a professional and productive way. But if something happens which you strongly disagree with then you have a responsibility to do what you think is right, sometimes at personal cost.
> As long as you're not saying "yeah, f* Bossman!" you're probably fine.
You're probably fine saying "yeah, f** Bossman!" too. What are they going to do, read your personal emails and then fire you too for expressing emotion over layoffs?
Obviously I wouldn't resort to mere ad hominem, but we should call a spade a spade. If someone's trashing their employer, more likely than not, they are probably speaking the truth; unlike most who go along to get along. Corporations, at the end of the day, are sociopaths, and I'm not going to pass down their lack of empathy by proxy with toxic positivity.
> If someone's trashing their employer, more likely than not, they are probably speaking the truth
Oddly, this has not been my experience. People bitter about being let go tend to project just as much as anyone else suffering from intense negative emotions, and they tend to gloss over their own contributions in doing so (assuming the termination isn't part of a mass layoff).
At the end of the day, I agree that toxic positivity isn't helping anyone, but it's also better (imho) to not feed unconstructive negativity. If they need to vent, let them vent, then pivot.
bachmeier|4 months ago
> Don’t feel like you have continue the conversation if they respond. You can if you want, but don’t feel obligated.
You: Sorry you got laid off. I'll miss chatting about your family.
Them: I understand why they did it, but this is tough. I've got a kid in college and another graduating high school this year. Hopefully I'll be able to find something in a few months. Know of anyone that's hiring?
You: <no response>
mooreds|4 months ago
* you want to treat your former co-worker as a human being. That's the whole point of the post.
* it can be scary or shameful to reach out to someone who was just let go. You wonder things like "why them and not me, what did they do wrong, what if they react negatively, I'm busy with other stuff, oh man, is my job at risk". (The caveat here is of course that those who remain still have income and so the burden is worse for the laid off.)
This is why I think some folks don't do this simple, humane, outreach. But they should. So I was trying to address the latter worry.
I doubt most conversations go negative (as I mentioned, I've never had them do so). I wanted to give permission to people to reach out because that is important but also permission to stop the conversation if it reached a point they didn't feel comfortable.
I am sure I could have phrased it better.
W/r/t your example, I think most folks who sent the first message you suggest would respond. I think I would.
fenomas|4 months ago
shortrounddev2|4 months ago
sodapopcan|4 months ago
lapcat|4 months ago
It feels more like how to do the minimum possible without doing absolutely nothing.
kijin|4 months ago
But I agree with you that "I can't continue this conversation" is probably not the best way to respond, even in that case.
kypro|4 months ago
You can empathise with someone for being upset without contributing to further the discussion. In situations like this I normally redirect... So if I received a message like, "I'm really mad at X-Corp and Mr Bossman, I can't believe they got rid of Joe!", I'd probably reply, "it's sad, I hope he's doing alright".
As long as you're not saying "yeah, f** Bossman!" you're probably fine.
That's obviously assuming you want to avoid trashing your employer... I find these events are often times for reflection. It's okay to be critical if you feel strongly, but you should do that in a professional and productive way. But if something happens which you strongly disagree with then you have a responsibility to do what you think is right, sometimes at personal cost.
swiftcoder|4 months ago
You're probably fine saying "yeah, f** Bossman!" too. What are they going to do, read your personal emails and then fire you too for expressing emotion over layoffs?
llm_nerd|4 months ago
Better advice -- do what's right for your and your relationship with the person. General advice is misdirected.
kakacik|4 months ago
What a sad mode to live by if true.
frotaur|4 months ago
netule|4 months ago
This is ChatGPT, 100%.
John23832|4 months ago
psygn89|4 months ago
ravenstine|4 months ago
Obviously I wouldn't resort to mere ad hominem, but we should call a spade a spade. If someone's trashing their employer, more likely than not, they are probably speaking the truth; unlike most who go along to get along. Corporations, at the end of the day, are sociopaths, and I'm not going to pass down their lack of empathy by proxy with toxic positivity.
zdragnar|4 months ago
Oddly, this has not been my experience. People bitter about being let go tend to project just as much as anyone else suffering from intense negative emotions, and they tend to gloss over their own contributions in doing so (assuming the termination isn't part of a mass layoff).
At the end of the day, I agree that toxic positivity isn't helping anyone, but it's also better (imho) to not feed unconstructive negativity. If they need to vent, let them vent, then pivot.