[mads_quist]

Yes, they use apps to break the law. But, still, regulation - when in doubt - should be avoided. Did you know that in Germany, you need to send your employees to a specialised training if they use a ladder in their day to day work? You don't need to regulate what's common sense.

[nathan_compton]

What is ridiculous is that you think this isn't a good idea. Safely using ladders isn't common sense and ladder injuries probably cost the state and the places where they occur a lot of money.

I think you are mistaking your point of view, which is probably that of an individual business owner, for the point of view of someone looking at the actuarial statistics or whatever and seeing tens of thousands of preventable ladder injuries a year. Just because an event is rare from your point of view doesn't mean that the event costs nothing or that it should be ignored.

I can't believe how common this attitude of "if its too small for me to notice it doesn't matter" is.

[sebastos]

The analysis isn't done yet though: - How much do you trust the statistics about which ladder deaths were preventable? - Do you have the numbers on the counter-factual: once ladder training is introduced, these sub-populations see X reduction in ladder deaths, offsetting for reduction in ladder use due to people not having their ladder license? - What is the productivity cost of assigning every single ladder user a training class, in perpetuity? This analysis should include the cost of creating a cottage ladder training industry that provides the trainings, the hourly productivity loss of sending people to trainings, the administrative cost of ensuring the trainings have been conformed to, etc.

In your heart of hearts, when you are assigned mandatory trainings, how much do you learn? I'm not asking how much _could_ you learn, I'm asking how much DO you learn? My experience, and the obvious unspoken consensus of all my colleagues, is that you click through mandatory virtual trainings as fast as possible, with the sound down, on fast-forward. If it's a live training with an actual practical skill (like ladder training), then I'd definitely concede it's much more engaging and you probably learn something. But MANY trainings are clearly, obviously, a net friction on society.

"I see a problem - how about we make a law that everybody must learn about that thing?" is the crappiest, laziest way to address the problem that you could possibly think of. If 'mandate a training' was analogized to a pull request on a codebase, it would be like responding to a bug report by adding a pop-up dialog that always pops up whenever you open the program and warns you about the bug. In other words, the shittiest possible non-solution that lets somebody close the issue as resolved. A real solution takes more work and more thinking.

[ToucanLoucan]

I love this comment. I am so sick and tired of the term "common sense" being used as a panacea for those on the bottom of a Dunning Kruger curve to justify wanting their ignorance to be taken as seriously as other people's knowledge. I can think of dozens of ways someone could misuse a ladder that would definitely result in property damage and quite possibly injuries and even fatalities.

I wonder how many people are killed yearly because they buy various tools and don't read the damn instructions because they're definitely smart enough to use this and be safe already, it's common sense after all!

[klaff]

Have you considered whether such training might possibly have a positive result?

"In 2023, the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons reported that 500,000 people were treated for ladder-related injuries, with 300 of these incidents proving fatal." from https://www.usf.edu/health/public-health/news/2024/cc-ladder...

[ako]

You do need to regulate what is common sense to protect employees. There's a lot of pressure from employers to do things that go against common sense, accidents happen. The employee is hurt, employer doesn't care. A large role of regulation is to protect employees from greedy employers. That's why some employers like illegals, they don't complain about not following regulations.

[cycomanic]

That's such a gross simplification that it's highly misleading. Yes you need training to if your work involves ladders, just like any other tool that is potentially dangerous. The type of training highly depends on the danger, so for someone using a stepladder to get something from a shelf will not need more than "use the ladder from the closet, put it back after use", while someone climbing up to the antennas on a skyscraper will receive very different training (i.e. always clip in your safety harness, how to use double carabiners ...). I don't know how this is controversial?

[haunter]

>You don't need to regulate what's common sense.

Americans: hold my AR15

[mothballed]

Most state do require a security license though to carry a weapon for remuneration (not needed if just for personal protection).

[hedora]

That’s true in the US too.

We had someone come to our house to work on a range hood. They didn’t have ladder training, so the insurance company wouldn’t cover it if they fell off the ladder.

The range hood repairman left without doing any work. I do wonder what a normal day at work looks like for this person. We weren’t billed for the house call.

[mothballed]

Lol you must not live in the country.

Par for the course for a vanload of meth-heads who've never attended an hour of formal training in their life to be walking around a 45 degree roof without a harness, or one clipped into an ornamental non-structural member.

[cosmicgadget]

What idiot would ever use a ladder in a dangerous way?

It's me, I'm the idiot.

Standing on the top step? Yes. Putting a hammer on the top step and forgetting about it? Uh huh. Putting the ladder on plywood on a mattress so I could change a lightbulb without moving the bed and buying a taller ladder? You better believe it. Using a paint sprayer with a 25' latter and no spotter? Absolutely not. Wait, yes.

There are dozens of us: https://old.reddit.com/r/MenonUnstableLadders/

[Scrapemist]

Did you know in the US Federal law does not require any specific licensing or safety training to purchase a firearm.