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madacol | 4 months ago

Even if Venezuela goes to hell even deeper, she still deserves the prize for what she has already done!

The way she, and her team, managed to convince venezuelans that the election mattered, and to prepare to gather the evidence of the elections under constant threats from the government, that we all knew they were going to steal, and do it entirely peacefully, was an extremely impressive achievement on its own.

What an impressive act of coordination from MCM

:standing-ovation:

discuss

order

jmyeet|4 months ago

Disclaimer: I'm not accusing you of (intentionally or unintentionally) doing this but your comment brought up the issue.

For a lot of horrific events in the world, you will find a bias exposed by the use of active vs passive voice. Compare:

- "100 children died". How?

- "100 children killed". By whom? Why? How?

- "100 children killed in conflict". Between who? How? Why?

' "100 children killed in air strike on refugee camp by X". Oh...

The point is that a lot of people treat what is happening in Venezuela like it's some kind of unavoidable natural disaster like an earthquake. This reinforces the idea that nobody is responsible and, more improtantly, there's nothing we can do.

Venezuelans are being intentionally starved to death by economic sanctions (that's what sactions are). Why? Because Maduro is bad. Sound familiar? It should. Castro was bad. Saddam Hussein was bad (despite being a US puppet for decades).

The actual issue is that these people threaten the interests of Western companies. That's it. That's the only thing that matters.

danabrams|4 months ago

Maduro, Castro, and Saddam Hussein are/were bad. Castro and Hussein, at least, committed murders to maintain power and Maduro pulled a coup after he lost an election.

Whether they were worth removing is another question, but if you could flip a switch and magically replace them with something better (with no cost and a guarantee the replacement would not be a murderous authoritarian) you would of course do it.

ErneX|4 months ago

Venezuelans are being starved by the sheer incompetency/corruption of its leaders. It’s a kleptocracy.

The collapse started way earlier than the sanctions. It’s funny, but it’s even insulting that some people cannot comprehend that there is evil beyond their own frontiers. Not everything wrong that happens in the world is because an empire is meddling, we are also capable of being useless by ourselves!

mobiledev2014|4 months ago

When will this stop being controversial? All you need to do is look at past winners of this farcical prize

tim333|4 months ago

It's debatable who's fault starvation is. Maduro might have something to do with it. I'm not sure how it threatens western companies.

EasyMark|4 months ago

I don't understand why don't deal with Maduro but Trump regards Putin as practically an old friend, while both treat their people equally shitty. Same with some other countries, what is the litmus test?

throwawaymaths|4 months ago

what interest does north korea threaten?

29athrowaway|4 months ago

The Venezuelan regime makes money from oil. They do not need to involve the population to generate most of the GDP. To them, spending resources to have a healthy and happy populace is just a waste of money that would otherwise go to the rulers of the regime. The CGP "Rules for rulers" explains how this happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

They stay in power with the help of a paramilitary group of bullies that intimidates people: colectivos. The Venezuelan colectivos are based on the Cuban CDR (committee for the defense of the revolution). And there are other elements of the Cuban "model" of staying in power that has "worked" for 66 years, that Venezuelan regime has adopted. And the CDR resembles the Nazi Sturmabteilung in their modus operandi.

So in the end what's holding the regime together is all violence, all the way down.

The history lesson is that when the most of the GDP generation doesn't need without the help of the population, the result is a regime. Scalable and cost efficient AGI will do the same to countries that do not make most of their GDP from extracting natural resources because once the citizen is not needed for wealth generation, territorial control, etc., their political representation goes away.

baincs|4 months ago

> The history lesson is that when the most of the GDP generation doesn't need without the help of the population, the result is a regime. Scalable and cost efficient AGI will do the same to countries that do not make most of their GDP from extracting natural resources because once the citizen is not needed for wealth generation, territorial control, etc., their political representation goes away.

That's a great insight

cyberax|4 months ago

> The history lesson is that when the most of the GDP generation doesn't need without the help of the population

Counterexample: China. Or plenty of African countries. Being a petrocracy certainly makes authoritarianism easier, but it's not at all a requirement.

pigpag|4 months ago

[deleted]

yostrovs|4 months ago

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dtech|4 months ago

I would rather give the "Fire Safety" prize to the people who installed sprinklers and smoke alarms than to firefighters

jeltz|4 months ago

You may think that but Alfred Nobel disagreed and it is his prize. If she fits the criteria is another question but it was certainly not intended to just be about real wars and real peace (whatever that is).

    den som har verkat mest eller best för folkens förbrödrande och afskaffande
    eller minskning af stående arméer samt bildande och spridande af
    fredskongresser

    shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations,
    for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and
    promotion of peace congresses
English translation is taken from Wikipedia and not totally exact but close enough.

markjenkinswpg|4 months ago

Consider this. There are circumstances in Venezuela that some would consider worthy of a civil war. This award winner has chosen peaceful resistance, acts that may have prevented war.

bmmayer1|4 months ago

Who would you give the Nobel Peace Prize to?

ErneX|4 months ago

There’s kidnapping, imprisonment, torture and rape of political dissidents.

They created an exodus of 8 million people.

Starved the population.

Killed people in the thousands in the favelas and other poor areas without a trial.

Steals elections.

To me that’s a regime at war with its own population and it deserves all the condemnation possible and all the support necessary to help transition back to democracy.

madacol|4 months ago

... and yet the consequences of what's going is as if there was war, the economy is suffering as if there was war, the people are fleeing as if there was war and dying as if there was war

You don't need a war to have a lack of Peace!

raverbashing|4 months ago

I don't know honestly if some people feed on negative attention or if they just live their life trying to fit square pegs into round holes

lyu07282|4 months ago

Its like the Iraq war all over again, you gobble this shit up like its sophisticated propaganda. Like she literally went on Fox&Friends to glaze Trump bombing those Venezuelan boats and supports US sanctions hurting her own citizens. You think she is some sort of popular resistance fighter or something? You Americans are so fucking stupid its hilarious.