[palmfacehn]

It isn't enough to observe empirically how laissez-faire has increased living standards to the extent that it is permitted. It is also necessary to describe the impossibility of central planning due to the Economic Calculation Problem.

We must also observe that opponents to laissez-faire liberalizations are by definition proponents of illiberal central planning.

Yes, vaguely liberalized economies have had problems. It doesn't follow that the problems of these vaguely liberalized economies are exclusively the result of liberalization. HN will harp on cherry picked citations. A common theme will be judging events in the distant past by the standards of the present.

The alternative is not a utopia, it is a relatively less free and more centrally planned economy. The failure mode of these centralized systems is more catastrophic, results in less opportunity and less productivity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

AI is a technology to be used to improve the human condition. The laissez-faire system, to the extent that we allow it, is the decentralized way to allocate resources to serve humanity.

[mcv]

It's not laissez-faire that has increased living standards, it's the combination of the free market, union organizing, and resulting from that, regulation and the social safety net. Before that, there was still massive poverty. And many countries still experiencing poverty are lacking the latter half of that list.

Note that free market economics and laissez-faire economics are not the same thing. A free market requires a transparent market that's equally accessible to everyone, that's not dominated by cartels and monopolies, and that requires some regulation. Laissez-faire opposes that regulation and wants to give free reign to cartels and monopolies. Adam Smith explicitly warned against those, and pointed out the necessity of workers organizing to avoid being taken advantage of. And that, workers having negotiating power, that is what increased their living standards.

> We must also observe that opponents to laissez-faire liberalizations are by definition proponents of illiberal central planning.

This is bullshit. There's the entire free market economy in between those two extremes.

[culll_kuprey]

> This is bullshit. There's the entire free market economy in between those two extremes.

You see, here’s the big problem. You people can’t even agree about what the object of your argument even is.

Were are fucked.