[MountDoom]

I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.

When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that I'm just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet footprint follow me everywhere I go. I set them up using a throwaway email account, turned off almost all notifications, and added just family and real-world friends. I think this served me well for nearly two decades. I really only use my phone for maps, photos, and maybe 2-5 messages a day. I honestly never found myself in a situation where I thought to myself, "gosh, I wish I could read my e-mail right now".

But in the past five years, there's been this mounting pressure from app vendors to make sure I can no longer enjoy that. Every other time a friend sends me a web link, I get a popup that detects I'm on mobile and demands I install an app. And they increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

If you work for a place that does that, I just hope you stub your toe every morning.

[dripton]

The phone vendors should support not telling the websites you're on mobile. I know they can guess based on resolution and such, but there should be a setting to lie and simulate a desktop. You can't rely on every single website not being run by jerks, but you should be able to buy a phone from a company that cares more about its customers than random jerks.

[jakub_g]

On Android at least, you can toggle "desktop view" in any browser. The UX is crap on some websites, but you can make things work enough to not need the app.

For example I use Opera to browse `facebook.com/messages`. It's a bad UX for writing (somehow it "swallows" some of the written text when you type too fast, or select text and try to overwrite it), but this makes me use it less. Won't ever install FB app on my phone.

[badc0ffee]

Safari has this setting, but the half dozen times I've tried it, it doesn't work. I suspect you're right that it's because sites just look at the resolution.

[ksymph]

Most browser apps have an option for this, no? Chrome and Vivaldi have it for sure.

[janwl]

The phone vendors want you downloading and using apps.

[xandrius]

You mean Desktop view? Which exists on every browser?

If you want full fooling, install a UA changer on your Firefox mobile, and you're laughing.

[reaperducer]

there should be a setting to lie and simulate a desktop.

Apple has started down this road. All iPads now use desktop user agents.

[thaumasiotes]

> The phone vendors should support not telling the websites you're on mobile.

The browser vendors already do. What do you want to change?

[surgical_fire]

> When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that I'm just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet footprint follow me everywhere I go.

From my social circle, the only such annoying links I get are from Instagram.

I have a deep, almost visceral hatred for the current incarnation of social media, so I go out of my way to not create accounts on those things.

For Instagram and similar shit, I could find some nice downloader bots on Telegram. They typically require you to join some spam channels, but you can join and archive those so you never see that they exist.

[basisword]

>> For Instagram and similar shit, I could find some nice downloader bots on Telegram. They typically require you to join some spam channels, but you can join and archive those so you never see that they exist.

Why is this better than just joining Instagram with a 'ghost' account only used to view things you've been sent. No following or viewing otherwise. Is it just self-control (which I fully understand if it is)?

[Gigachad]

Tbh the link problem is common for everyone. I sent a tiktok link to a non tech friend and they couldn’t view it because they didn’t have an account. So I used a downloaded tool to send the video directly. All of the major social media sites are locking out users who aren’t signed in with the app. So you usually just screenshot or use an external tool to rip the content.

[nunodonato]

I simply reply, "I can't see that because it requires an account". Often people give up and don't send me anything... which I'm also fine with, since it's mostly "funny videos"

[basisword]

RE: TikTok. I get links sent frequently and I can view on the web. They make it very difficult though! Muted and autoplay by default and hard to find the unmute button under a web of popups. I think the site isn't responsive either so desktop site on mobile. Also - for some videos at least on TikTok you can download the video via the share button! So not always necessary to use a third party tool.

[wolvesechoes]

> I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.

Yeah, we can waste a lot of time in front of the PC, but it at least can be used for creativity and productivity.

[Smart]phones are almost pure consumption.

[ryandrake]

> [Smart]phones are almost pure consumption.

This might depend on one's age/generation. There are tons of internet-connected people today growing up without ever owning (or knowing how to use) a PC at all. They do everything on their phone, including the creative stuff. I didn't believe it either until I saw my friend's high-school age kid writing an entire 15 page writing assignment on her phone. Us PC people are kind of dinosaurs.

[prmoustache]

While you xan be productive, procrastination is right at the corner even on a PC.

For instance some people making music like to have a dedicated, offline computer to do so in lrder to not be tempted to open the web browser for 2 minutes that transformz itself into hours. Same for some writers who try to seek dedicated environments focused on writing and limiting their exposure to the internet.

[walkabout]

Cannot relate. Aside from creating things for computers (code) I do a lot more creation-related stuff with my phone.

I mean, it's covered in cameras and microphones and shit. I can measure things with it. In a pinch, it's a level. Photos for reference at the hardware store. Filming content for most any purpose short of outright pro-level work, great on a phone. Tuner for my instruments, metronome if I want that, good for sheet music (iPad's best, but a phone will do in a pinch, and I'm not gonna carry a laptop around and unfold it and stuff). It fits in my pocket and I always have it, which means it's the only "notebook" I've been able to stick with for writing down ideas. Working with MIDI? Phone or tablet. In the workshop? Phone or tablet. Cooking? Phone or tablet. Working on my car? Phone. Working on the garden or any handyman-stuff around the house? Phone. A laptop would be a downgrade in every case, I don't really have any use for one aside from writing code.

I messed around with stuff like MSPaint as a kid, like everyone else, but these days I'd do that in Procreate on the iPad (and that is in fact what I use for drawing). Even the Pocket version on a phone would be better.

Unless I'm making things for computers an I-device is at least as good, and usually better, for creation-related stuff. Phones are worse for long-form writing, mostly due to the tiny screen, but a tablet's better for that than a laptop, given an external keyboard, because you can place the screen somewhere other than right on top of the keyboard, for better ergonomics.

[MrDarcy]

Not much to add other than I switched to this exact model in 2020 and have had the same pleasant outcome for 5 years now. I’m much more productive and can execute deep work for weeks on end. I remained in the zone on my current project for 4 consecutive weeks. I attribute this to having no distractions. The outcomes produced from remaining in the zone for so long are objectively measurable and high level.

[jcul]

Do you browse hacker news on your phone? Genuine question, I don't use social media but I do spend a lot of time on HN on my phone.

[ErigmolCt]

Deep work isn't just about focus, it's about staying long enough in that state for the compounding effect to kick in, and it sounds like you've nailed that

[crossroadsguy]

I did all of this and it has served me well — as far as distractions and unwanted comms go. The problem is, now whenever I get that isolated spam (still happens daily or few times a week — just a little) it gets on my nerves, almost like a rage. Because it feels like a violation. For others I see, they don’t even register it.

[nerdsniper]

I feel similarly whenever I carefully set notifications for apps, turning off everything but the most essential ones (like “your driver is arriving” from Uber) and then the corporation uses the only remaining notification channel to send me marketing engagement notifications like “20% off your next 3 rides!!”

I get pretty upset at this. I have a 1 strike policy for most apps. Now even Uber just doesn't get any notifications at all on my phone.

Same for email spam. If I didn’t opt in or if I unsubscribed and still get emails, or if unsubscribing requires more than 2 clicks, every single one gets reporter to Google as spam. If there’s no unsubscribe link I report it to the FTC.

I do it out of principle. If everyone took an absolutist hard line on these things, the world would be a tiny bit better.

[hanlec]

I have been trying to reduce my usage. I still cannot find a way to resist pulling out the phone to: - perform a quick search (browser or ai) - listen to podcasts - listen to audiobook - check the data of the last running or gym session.

Are there alternatives that are as friendly? Or being friendly is the danger here?

[mapontosevenths]

I had to combine two apps to really nail it. I should say that currently I'm in Android.

The first is an app called Bloom (theres another called Brick thats similar) that allows you to lock app access behind a physical NFC card. You lock the app and to unlock you must scan the card.

The second is an app called "freedom" that blocks access to specific websites or apps on a schedule.

I setup Freedom to block the distracting apps and websites during specific hours, then used Bloom to block Freedom, this prevents me from just disabling Freedom when I'm bored. I keep the NFC tag in my car.

Now I use a full featured smartphone that does what I want, and if I actually need access to social media or blocked sites I go to the car to unlock Bloom. I still have all the options, they're just a little more inconvenient.

The added friction of having to physically get up means I usually just don't bother, and Freedoms scheduling and category based blocks mean I can be pretty flexible about what I block and when.

[lm28469]

Disable fingerprint unlock, add a long password, airplane mode unless you actively want to check something, &c. Add as many barriers as possible so that by the time you get through you either forgot why you came for or realised it's not that important

I don't think there are alternatives to what modern phones can do, unless you want to carry multiple dumb devices around (ebook + GPS + mp3 player for example)

[scyzoryk_xyz]

Apps and phones are just so much better for surveillance which I know, duh. Most users simply don't give it any thought and install apps left and right permissions included. The smaller screen real estate is also better for surveillance - smaller number of things on screen equals more granular information on what you're doing precisely.

Extra toe-stubbing wishes for those that are pushing this paradigm into desktop - it's bewildering to me when I hear non-technical folks tell me that an app on desktop needs to come from an app store. Or when web design is being "simplified" and dumbed down really on desktop to facilitate surveillance.

Toe-stubbing-every-morning wishes to a lot of people for contributing to this reality.

[pengaru]

> And they increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

Usually I can work around this by toggling "desktop mode" in firefox on android...

[gausswho]

Also on Android you can use Firefox Nightly with uBlock Origin. Go to settings and enable all the Social and Annoyances lists. This should suppress many prompts to download an app.

[ErigmolCt]

You did everything right (set boundaries, kept things intentional) and still the internet crept in through the cracks like water under a poorly sealed door

[at-fates-hands]

I found the one thing that kept me off of my phone was using a degoogled pixel 4XL with Graphene OS on it. So much you can't do on the stock version using F-Droid app store. I really enjoyed until I needed to start downloading a few banking apps that didn't work on it.

So I'm back, but limit what I have on my phone now and its like you said, a constant struggle NOT to download and install something.

[Vinnl]

Somewhat off-topic, but since it might be useful to you and others:

> if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

I'm signed in to both my Firefox on Android and on desktop, and I can hit the share button while viewing a website and then tap my desktop Firefox under "Send to device". Saves a bunch of steps there.

I'm assuming other browsers can do the same.

[Andrex]

Just a small data point/anecdote: I think the calls to install native apps are actually decreasing now. I don't get spammed for that nearly as much as 2014-2018 or so. Even banks seem to be getting comfortable with making mobile optimized websites now.

But like I said, just my perspective, I don't have any hard data points.

[mrweasel]

> Even banks seem to be getting comfortable with making mobile optimized websites now

At the cost of making an actually useful website for those of us not on mobile. My bank insists on making their website/online banking platform work as if it was their mobile app. The flow of bank transfers, paying bills, writing to your banking adviser is now entirely confusing and feels unsafe. Even a 14" laptop has plenty of space to show you detailed overviews, but no, assume that the user is on a tiny ass screen and show them mostly white-space.

[homebrewer]

Most of those mobile application nags can be removed by enabling the corresponding filter list in uBlock Origin settings. If you're not using Firefox on the phone, both Vivaldi and Brave have this subscription in their settings (I think it might even be enabled out of the box).

[lunias]

I will not install your app, but I will silently stop using your service. If I'm installing an app then it should presumably offer me some functionality offline, because if I'm online then I can go to your website.

[sjw987]

"Sorry, I don't have [app/website name]. Could you send a screenshot?"

The only other response is to fill your phone with 128 GB of every different social media app that exists.

[southernplaces7]

>If you work for a place that does that, I just hope you stub your toe every morning.

You're too kind. These kinds of nagging parasites should be force fed excrement until they choke on it.