[euleriancon]

Well, the US publishes numbers for a lot of its programs so we can see exactly how much is spent on the bureaucratic nightmare.

Medicaid

FY 2023 Budget: $900.3b ($620b federal, $280b state) [1]

FY 2023 Budget not spent on benefits (admin overhead): 5% ($45b) [2]

SNAP

FY 2024 Budget: $100.3b [3]

FY 2024 Budget not spent on benefits (admin overhead): $6.5b [3]

TANF

FY2024 Budget: $31.5b ($16.5b federal, $15b state) [4]

FY2023 Budget spent on program overhead: %10.1 ($3.2b) [5]

Total Admin Spending $54.7b -> $169 per person in the US

So not totally negligible but also not exactly a basic income

[1] (https://www.macpac.gov/topic/spending)

[2] (https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R42640) See figure 4

[3] (https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-does-the-federal-gover...)

[4] (https://www.gao.gov/assets/880/872093.pdf)

[5] (https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ofa/fy2023_tan...)

[0xffff2]

Also, not all of the admin overhead would disappear if we got rid of means testing. I don't have the expertise to come up with a specific number, but I'd wager that getting half the admin costs back would be the absolute best case. I still support simplifying means testing for benefits programs, but not because it's going to magically free up a consequential amount of money.

[Aurornis]

> Also, not all of the admin overhead would disappear if we got rid of means testing.

Exactly. The same conversation happens with discussion about eliminating private health insurance: Other countries with nationalized health care still have their own overhead. It's less than the overhead of a private healthcare system, but not by as much as everyone assumes. You could completely eliminate the overhead of private health insurance in the United States and it would only change the situation by a couple percent, though most people assume it would be much, much more.

[steveBK123]

Precisely, people on the left wildly overestimate the admin overhead while people on the right wildly overestimate the fraud.

In the end, we have a gradually increasing idea of what the "basics" are which we should provide the poor / the elderly / everyone, and a decreasing working-to-retired ratio.

That is - the spend side is increasing faster than the income side. Europe is about 10 years ahead of us on this problem, but we are catching up fast.

[roboror]

>Precisely, people on the left wildly overestimate the admin overhead

Public or private? I've never seen "the left" criticize admin overhead in public services.

McKinsey estimates healthcare profit pools will reach $819 billion in 2027.