[josevalim]

LiveView was still before v1.0, hence the churn, but Phoenix itself did not introduce breaking changes since v1.0, released more than a decade ago. Our skeleton for new applications change, as best practices around web apps are still evolving, but it is completely up to you to migrate. As a reference point, most other web frameworks have gone through several major versions in the same time, changing how new apps are built but also breaking old ones.

The idea that Phoenix is also mostly macros does not hold in practice. Last time this came up, I believe less than 5% of Phoenix' public API turned out to be macros. You get this impression because the initial skeleton it generates has the endpoint and the router, which are macro heavy, but once you start writing the actual application logic, your context, your controllers, and templates are all regular functions.

[dnautics]

> The idea that Phoenix is also mostly macros does not hold in practice

no, but the Framework does push you into using them. A good example is the `use MyAppWeb` pattern. That's a macro that nests other macros. the good news is that you can pretty much excise that and everything works fine, and LLMs have no problem even! (i think they slightly prefer it)

a few cognitive pain points with phoenix macros:

plug: (love it dearly) but a bit confusing that it creates a conn variable out of whole cloth. a minor complaint. worth it, otherwise.

phoenix.router: is a plug but isnt quite a plug.

anyways that's it! the rest is ~fabulous. i think to find a framework where you have two minor complaints is a blessing. remember how activerecord automagically pluralized tables for you?

[oxidant]

What do you mean, "creates a Conn variable out of whole cloth"?

Conn is just a pipeline of functions, the initial Conn struct is created at request time and passed through to each function in the pipeline.

[ch4s3]

“It’s all regular functions” should be on our collective bumper sticker.

[bmitc]

Thanks for the clarifications!

> I believe less than 5% of Phoenix' public API turned out to be macros.

The idea may still be right, but I'm curious if that addresses the majority of the public API that users are greeted with. I have unfortunately not written Elixir in a few years (cries), and I've never fully grokked Phoenix, so perhaps I'm still wrong.