top | item 45642961

(no title)

discomrobertul8 | 4 months ago

This doesn't seem like a very sensible policy. There are a great many harms that once done, cannot be undone.

discuss

order

vintermann|4 months ago

Especially when it comes to nature. "Oops, there's nothing left to save now anyway, might as well build that project we wanted!"

_ink_|4 months ago

And when companies with limited liability are involved. Case in point the research reactor in Germany. The company that was responsible to dismantle it just declared insolvency.

BurningFrog|4 months ago

There is also great harm in valuable things never being built.

Since that harm is invisible, it is very hard to factor in, and is almost always ignored.

throwway120385|4 months ago

Would you live next to a chemical factory, knowing that the only way they can be punished for dumping chemicals is by making you sick?

squigz|4 months ago

> Since that harm is invisible, it is very hard to factor in, and is almost always ignored.

This seems like the sensible course of action?

Also, any "value" from those things not being built is also invisible and very hard to factor in.

pfdietz|4 months ago

Harms don't need to be undone, they just need to be penalized.

For example: statistical deaths can be compensated for by fines using the statistical value of a human life (about $12 M). Nuclear power regulation could be based on this principle.

saagarjha|4 months ago

How do you feel about extending this to direct murder?

saubeidl|4 months ago

I don't know man, I don't wanna die in a shoddy building or an airplane crash, even if it means my partner gets $12M.

To me, my own life is invaluable. I would assume most people feel similarly.

timeon|4 months ago

Not sure if people [0] would do anything if they would not know rules (regulations) but could be drastically penalized if something happens.

[0] Except for reckless gamblers.

discomrobertul8|4 months ago

Ok cool, this bodes well for my "disposing of household waste by dropping a nuclear bomb on it in Central Park" startup

detaro|4 months ago

That's great, so we just need to make some scapegoat companies go bankrupt from fines occasionally and can do whatever we want? (It's already somewhat of an issue in construction industries, build shoddy homes and dissolve the company before the majority of buyers realizes how bad it is, repeat)

mapt|4 months ago

One of the things I have evolved on as a liberal/leftist.

There are just too many situations today where somebody is paying the fine with a smile on their face, if not settling for some trivial amount with no acknowledgement of wrongdoing.

Willful harms and even reckless harms by corporations need to be penalized aggressively and punitively. When a corporation worth $30 billion gains $1.3 billion in material benefit over 10 years by doing some activity that victimizes or risks people, it's fucking stupid to try and penalize them $10M with no jail time for anybody. "Cost of doing business" should never be a viable option, because the law needs a subjective bent, some small tyranny of justice, some adversarial person that corporations are structurally encouraged to be terrified of pissing off. If that means forcibly diluting their stock, or seizing the company, or terminating their charter, or throwing their executives down a hole for five years, that's evidently a necessary component of regulation. Deterrence is the name of the game, not just "seeking compliance".

We created corporations, and demand their executives, to behave in a psychopathic, amoral, "rational" profit-seeking manner by the legal fiduciary duty. Passively failing to significantly penalize predatory acts is actively encouraging their continuation. It's creating tools meant to do a thing (Hammers) and using them wrong (Juggling) and then acting stunned when they land on your foot, and spending the rest of the day glaring at and shaming the hammers, demanding verbal assurances that they'll never land on your foot again.

Occasionally, we hear about China rewarding corporate executives who commit malfeasance of a sufficiently malignant scale with capital punishment. The buck stops here. It sometimes makes the grass look greener on the other side, even with all the things I object to within that system.