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unixfg | 4 months ago

Would this have been possible without PIO?

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codebje|4 months ago

On a Pico? No - the PIOs replace other peripherals a µC might be able to use to achieve this sort of bitrate, so you'd not really have the tools you'd need to change GPIO pin states once every 3-4 CPU clock cycles.

In a sense the PIO is a bit 'cheaty' when claiming "bit-banging", because the PIO is the ultimate peripheral, programmable to be whatever you need. It's no mean feat to make the PIO do the sorts of things happening here, by any stretch, but "bit-banging" typically means using the CPU to work around the lack of a particular peripheral.

From that perspective, there's precious few µCs out there that could bit-bang 100MBit/s Ethernet - I'm no expert, but I _think_ that's a 125MHz IO clock, so if you want 4 CPU cycles per transition to load data and push it onto pins, you're looking for a 500MHz µC, and at those speeds you definitely have to worry about the bus characteristics, stalls, caching, and all those fun bits; it's not your old 8-bit CPU bit-banging a slow serial protocol over the parallel port any more.

rasz|4 months ago

>On a Pico? No

but Yes on pico2 because RP2350 has separate fast serializer (HSTX) hardware block able to clock out at 2x the global clock (DDR). 320MHz OC results in 600Mbit output. Here example pumping out 175 MByte/s of data encoded as HDMI signal (3 lanes) without touching PIOs https://github.com/steve-m/hsdaoh-rp2350 to be used with $6 MS2130 USB 3.0 4k HDMI Video Capture dongle.

bitwize|4 months ago

It's why I call the Pico a "headless Amiga"—the PIOs are basically Coppers but for general I/O instead of tied to a display.

I just wish the toolchain weren't so janky...

lukeh|4 months ago

I think XMOS can do it (the ones without the GEMAC) but I'm not exactly sure how much hardware assistance they have.

Neywiny|4 months ago

Ehhhhh the picture shows a very short cable. You can most certainly find micros that can run 100Mb/s communication interfaces, though sure maybe not bitbanged. However, you really need a PHY and magnetics. MII is 25MHz which seems fine. GMII is 125 MHz SDR which is something. Honestly that would've been a cooler demo IMO than running 2 inches

kfterrg67|4 months ago

>"bit-banging" typically means using the CPU

This is significant. It's using a hardware peripheral that is designed and intended for high frequency IO manipulation without CPU intervention. This isn't bit-banging, lest we start calling it "bit-banging" any time an FPGA or ASIC or even a microcontroller peripheral handles any kind of signalling.

tylerflick|4 months ago

Not at that transfer rate. SPI which is the next fastest (common) protocol you find on micros typically operates around 10 Mhz, but this isn’t an apples to apples comparison.