[etiennebausson]

Interesting dataset.

It would be a lot fairer to display tons of CO2 per inhabitant I think.

And that's before taking into account imported CO2.

[rishav_sharan]

Something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

[brooke2k]

Climate change isn't driven by per-inhabitant CO2 emissions. It's driven by total CO2 emissions, of which the US outputs 12% per year.

[tock]

Climate change isn't driven by human defined borders either. It's driven by total CO2 emissions. If a per-capita rate is non sensical then border based emissions are even more non sensical. Greenland only emits 0.001% of the total. Greenland is 12000x a better country than the US wow. This is exactly why per-capita is used.

[hansvm]

But the reason emissions happen is for per-inhabitant benefits. It's a very reasonable idea [0] to set a per-inhabitant goal and criticize countries exceeding that threshold (which the US would still fail at, but I'm arguing against the metric itself rather than US faults).

Take your position to something of an extreme -- the Vatican could open up 200 coal power plants for its holy Bitcoin operations and still be sufficiently less impactful to CO2 than the US that nobody would target them during climate talks. Rephrased from the other direction, each US citizen would blow their CO2 budget by buying a shirt per decade to get down to the Vatican's levels.

That's a common mental failure mode, analogous to the sorites paradox. Countries are made up of many small actors and decisions, and pretending otherwise is unlikely to help you achieve your goals.

[0] Mostly -- transitive effects like one country generating all the goods another country uses are harder to account for. Assuming we could measure perfectly though...

[jandrewrogers]

12% is quite low considering that the US is responsible for >20% of global industrial output.

[nonethewiser]

You're kinda contradicting yourself. You're right that it's about absolute numbers. But then you use a percentage.

perhaps 12% for 5% of the global population is too high. But you dont want to relate it to population. Relating to number of countries is rather non-sensical. Some are big (by productivity, area, population, etc.), some are tiny.

[nosianu]

How is that fair when a lot of industrial production was shifted to one region of the globe specifically? It would be impossible without a lot of guessing and estimations, producing questionable data, but you would have to include CO2 attributable to exports and imports.

Which is just too hard, and too open to change assumptions to fit a desired result.

Because in reality, much of the globe's economy is waaayyyyy too interconnected, and the arrows don't just point one way. Feedback loops without end.

That whole "this/that country..." just does not work, except to fill comment sections. The systems are global.

[gruez]

>It would be impossible without a lot of guessing and estimations, producing questionable data, but you would have to include CO2 attributable to exports and imports.

>Which is just too hard, and too open to change assumptions to fit a desired result.

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45762344

No, it's pretty straightforward. Count where a given good is consumed rather then where it's produced. It has to be estimated, but that's also the case for territorial emissions or other economic figures like GDP, but we don't throw our hands up and say "well it's too hard and too prone to fudging so we might as well not bother".

>Because in reality, much of the globe's economy is waaayyyyy too interconnected, and the arrows don't just point one way. Feedback loops without end.

What "feedback loops" are you talking about?

>That whole "this/that country..." just does not work, except to fill comment sections. The systems are global.

Ok but surely you must recognize that the US, where the average person drives a pickup/SUV to work is emitting more carbon than something like India where the average person gets around by walking or using motorbikes? That's the concept that conversations like "US emits more carbon per capita" are trying to capture. "The systems are global" sounds like an excuse to continue driving a F-150 to work because of some spurious arguments about how hard it's do to do carbon accounting 100% accurately.

[gruez]

>And that's before taking into account imported CO2.

It doesn't really make much of a difference. For US specifically there's about a 10% difference.

https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

[mulmen]

I believe the concept you are looking for is scope 3 emissions.