I'll admit that I might misunderstand the point but surely there is a gray area of what is considered "stolen" and what is "preserved"
Humans or groups can be responsible for many foolish acts. Stealing is one of those traits. I am open to accepting this when referring to the British Museum. However, I am also open to groups of people DESTROYING historical items all because they do not share their culture or religious views!
Again, I see no issue in Countries like UK returning items that's not theirs but only under grounds that they will be SAFE in their new (returned) home. However, the middle east is mixed with different cultures -- languages and religions. It's also a place of much conflict.
As a British man myself and interested in Ancient Egyptian mythology, I would be just as much heartbroken of ancient items being destroyed. You don't have to be an Egyptian who's lineage traces back to this historical times.
Its sad, really. One of these days those pyramids will likely be destroyed. Perhaps by War. Perhaps by religious uprising.
Again - is "stolen" correct, here? If the British did not take any of these back with them, would many of these items still be around? It could have been destroyed of gone missing.
>As a British man myself and interested in Ancient Egyptian mythology, I would be just as much heartbroken of ancient items being destroyed. You don't have to be an Egyptian who's lineage traces back to this historical times.
That's none of Britain's concern. How would you feel if Americans showed up and started breaking the angels off of Westminster Abbey or carting off Stonehenge because they didn't trust you to keep them SAFE? You'd probably riot.
The belief that you're entitled to another culture's knowledge and artifacts is colonialist thinking. They have the right to destroy their own culture if they want, you only have the right to ask and negotiate with them as peers. What Britain did in many cases wrt these artifacts was clearly theft.
And Europeans stripped the Colosseum for parts and the Church destroyed the artifacts of European pagan culture. You people really have no moral high ground to stand on.
I would add that these finds would, and many did, find there way to the black market, ending up in private collections, which is almost as bad as their destruction.
I’m conflicted. I understand the concept that stolen goods should be returned and it’s the right thing to do, but at the same time it was centuries ago and the preservation was done by them. I have seen well preserved exposition in that museum and then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era.
We never fail to find someone to defend colonization!
> then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era.
You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen.
Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other cases it's exposed but with very little relevant information because it's not particularly relevant to the local culture or the colonizer is too ashamed of the real history of how this object got there that they fail to explain the true story of it.
To be honest, this is what has always confused me about the land acknowledgements that are popular at the opening of events in various circles... it's not like any of the people doing this have an intention of giving the land back and going back to Europe.
Instead of whatever they're trying to do, it sounds more like they're rubbing it in the faces of the descendants.
masfoobar|4 months ago
Humans or groups can be responsible for many foolish acts. Stealing is one of those traits. I am open to accepting this when referring to the British Museum. However, I am also open to groups of people DESTROYING historical items all because they do not share their culture or religious views!
Again, I see no issue in Countries like UK returning items that's not theirs but only under grounds that they will be SAFE in their new (returned) home. However, the middle east is mixed with different cultures -- languages and religions. It's also a place of much conflict.
As a British man myself and interested in Ancient Egyptian mythology, I would be just as much heartbroken of ancient items being destroyed. You don't have to be an Egyptian who's lineage traces back to this historical times.
Its sad, really. One of these days those pyramids will likely be destroyed. Perhaps by War. Perhaps by religious uprising.
Again - is "stolen" correct, here? If the British did not take any of these back with them, would many of these items still be around? It could have been destroyed of gone missing.
Just a thought.
krapp|4 months ago
That's none of Britain's concern. How would you feel if Americans showed up and started breaking the angels off of Westminster Abbey or carting off Stonehenge because they didn't trust you to keep them SAFE? You'd probably riot.
The belief that you're entitled to another culture's knowledge and artifacts is colonialist thinking. They have the right to destroy their own culture if they want, you only have the right to ask and negotiate with them as peers. What Britain did in many cases wrt these artifacts was clearly theft.
And Europeans stripped the Colosseum for parts and the Church destroyed the artifacts of European pagan culture. You people really have no moral high ground to stand on.
jkmcf|4 months ago
debian3|4 months ago
jeromegv|4 months ago
> then you visit the original country where it’s from and they themselves have nothing or very little left from that era.
You seem to generalize quite a lot in order to validate your view point that everything stolen should stay stolen.
Sometimes it's the entire opposite. It's not being shown anywhere, it's just hidden in a museum collection in the UK. In other cases it's exposed but with very little relevant information because it's not particularly relevant to the local culture or the colonizer is too ashamed of the real history of how this object got there that they fail to explain the true story of it.
Here's a great podcast that I hope will make you change your mind, lots of examples: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/1030-stuff-the-britis...
suddenlybananas|4 months ago
>The ministry found that the artifact had passed from a museum restoration specialist to a silver trader to the owner of a jewelry workshop.
sct202|4 months ago
>British Museum gems for sale on eBay - how a theft was exposed
The British Museum is also vulnerable to staff theft.
soamv|4 months ago
throw47474848|4 months ago
[deleted]
zdragnar|4 months ago
Instead of whatever they're trying to do, it sounds more like they're rubbing it in the faces of the descendants.