[383toast]

summary:

The creator argues that most dishwashers are designed to use a pre-wash dose and a main wash dose of detergent, a fundamental often ignored by single-dose pods, and presents independent ASTM testing confirming the new powder matches or exceeds the performance of a leading premium pod. The video also features a detailed demonstration using temperature logging and peanut butter to stress the importance of purging cold water from the hot water supply line before running a dishwasher, particularly in North America, to ensure the water reaches the optimal enzymatic temperature needed for effective cleaning. This is further reinforced by showing how adding pre-wash detergent dramatically improves the initial cleaning phase, especially with fats and oils.

[losvedir]

This has been his stance for a long time. He has a lot of dishwasher videos for some reason!

One thing I can't get a good answer to is whether the "prewash" step is universally the case or not. I have a good Bosch dishwasher and there's no compartment for a bit of pre-wash detergent. I don't even know if my dishwasher cycle has a pre-wash step. I would assume the dishwasher manufacturer knows what's best.

The owner's manual gives advice about not pre-rinsing the dishes because the food bits actually help the wash cycle, so I'm wondering if it works differently from the two-step process in this video.

[totallymike]

What your manual says is common to most dishwashers.

You can tell if your dishwasher has a pre-wash cycle if it does a short run, then you hear it draining, and then it does a longer full run. I expect it probably does.

Also, you can always add a bit of detergent to the main compartment of the dishwasher for prewash. The normal detergent compartment has a lid so the the detergent stays dry until the main wash cycle, and most prewash compartments are just an open tray.

Come to think of it, if there is a latching door on the detergent tray, your dishwasher definitely has a prewash cycle, or else they’d skip the door entirely

[tonymet]

his dishwasher detergent videos are a good example of an "improved" product being more expensive and less effective (like disposable razors).

With better understanding you can achieve far better results. I no longer rinse or even scrape dishes. with the right approach my dishwasher performance has been stellar. The user manual also includes proper tuning to local water hardness levels.

Poor dishwashing also discourages people from cooking at home, which leads to less healthful diets. So it's an important thing to get right.

Dishwashing is fascinating.

[kxrm]

I have a Bosch as well, i sprinkle a bit of powder on the door. It has a pre-wash run which goes quick.

The manual is likely referring to not hand rinsing dishes before loading them which was very common 30 or 40 years ago. I had to train my Mother to stop doing that.

[woodpanel]

Pods have become so ubiquitous that many companies ditched that powder compartment altogether. But you don't need one anyways just pour it into the cabin.

The video explains why there always is a pre-wash step. Regardless of whether it comes with a pre-wash-powder compartment or not. I will try his solution.

[Scaevolus]

Find a PDF manual for your dishwasher. It generally will describe if it has a prewash.

[Johnny555]

The owners manual for my Bosch 500 says prewash detergent is not necessary. But it does have a prewash cycle as I can hear it draining before the main wash.

Note: This dishwasher provides the optimum cleaning performance without the use of a prewash detergent and further enhances our standards of sustainability and efficiency.

[brewdad]

I keep my Bosch set to Auto and Extra Dry and use Kirkland pods. Rarely do I have anything that comes out less than perfect.

The Extra Dry setting seems to help with getting the glass and ceramics dryer. Plastics still come out quite wet since it uses a hotter final rinse rather than a heating element to get dishes “dryer”.

[inferiorhuman]

I have a previous generation Bosch 500 series dishwasher. For my use case I get the best results with the heavy cycle. However I found that adding loose detergent in there for the "prewash" resulted in soapy residue being left on the dishes if used in conjunction with the heavy cycle (but not with the normal and auto cycles).

Alec's dishwasher videos are based on some rather primitive dishwashers. For instance he talks about his test unit not flushing out the spray arms, but Bosch/Siemens filters the water going to the spray arms so it wouldn't recirculate dirty water anyways. Same deal with the prewash. Bosch uses a turbidity sensor to determine how many "prewash" cycles to run and when to reuse the water, something his test unit very clearly does not.

[beAbU]

> He has a lot of dishwasher videos for some reason!

He is known as Angry Dishwasher Man for a reason.

[abracadaniel]

If the detergent container has a door, then that means the soap is dispensed later, which means there is a pre-wash stage it’s trying not to waste the detergent on.

[badc0ffee]

I have a Miele dishwasher. Not only is there no place to put prewash powder, but I can hear the little door for the detergent pop open like 2 minutes into the cycle when on the default program.

This dishwasher also came with a box of Miele pods (and they encourage you to buy more). I think it's designed first and foremost to not use powder.

[metabagel]

Perhaps there is an indentation on the outside of the detergent dispenser where you are meant to pour a bit of detergent for the pre-wash.

Like in the video: https://youtu.be/DAX2_mPr9W8?si=Njn749InqNCbjhQd&t=822

[red-iron-pine]

> He has a lot of dishwasher videos for some reason!

have you watched his videos? dude is on the spectrum.

to be clear, he makes good vids. but his fascinations exist for a reason.

[suprjami]

Thanks for the summary.

American dishwashers don't have their own heater? All dishwashers I've seen in Australia only have cold water supply.

[mrandish]

Some US washers don't but many do. However, US washers tend to not heat water as quickly or to as high of a temp. The video cites two reasons: 1. US power being 110V vs 220v. 2. US dishwasher heating elements being limited to 800 or 1000 watts because many are designed to potentially share one 20A residential circuit with an oven and/or fridge due to possibly being retrofitted into a kitchen built before built-in dishwashers were standard and manufacturers not wanting to create different models for retrofit vs new installs.

[Rebelgecko]

American dishwashers are typically hooked up to hot water. Some will have heaters but they're not that powerful and they may only run for the main wash cycle

[totallymike]

I can’t speak to Australian dishwashers, but trying to skip the video by catching a summary has failed you. Heating is discussed extensively in the video

[reaperducer]

American dishwashers don't have their own heater?

Some do, some don't.

The ones that do vary in ability by overall dishwasher quality.

The ones that don't are hooked up to the kitchen's hot water line.

This is considered more energy efficient because a home's hot water heater (whether electric, gas, or another fuel) is better at heating the water in a bulk capacity than a tiny heater in the dishwasher.

The downside is that the cold water between the big water heater and the dishwasher has to be purged first for it to be really effective. If your hot water heater is in the other side of the wall, no problem. If it's six rooms away, problem.

[vel0city]

A dishwasher cycle is usually only going to run for a specific period of time. Its more effective it if starts that time closer to the proper temperature rather than relying on waiting for the heater to get the temperature up to that time. Especially on the pre-rinse cycle, where the heater may or (probably) many not engage.

[WheatMillington]

Same in NZ, never seen a dishwasher with a hot water connection.

[devilbunny]

They do. I didn't realize this until my natural gas supply company decided to replace my meter on a Friday. Without alerting me ahead of time so that I could, you know, plan to be gone while my house had no hot water.

Whenever natural gas supply is turned off in the US, for any reason, only the gas company can turn it back on. And they can't do so if there's a leak at all. You have to call a plumber to come out, detect the leaks, and fix them. After that, you can call the gas company to come back out (but not on a weekend) to turn it back on. And a same-day request for service requires someone to be home ALL DAY after it's called in.

And this is how I ended up showering at work for three days that week after not having had one over the weekend.

[alvah]

This has always struck me as dumb, as until recently it was far cheaper to use your existing (gas-fired) hot water than to use a resistive element. However, with gas going out of fashion (and already hugely expensive in the Eastern states), and abundant solar PV, the calculus has changed.

[midnitewarrior]

They do, but they are generally confined to 10 amps, so they do not heat quickly.

[graemep]

My fairly cheap dishwasher in the UK has its own heater, but you can attach it to a hot water supply, which may save money as gas is so much cheaper than electricity.

[fsckboy]

traditionally (in household washing machine time) US houses were large and had a lot more hot water capacity for the whole house, and putting a heater into individual appliances was not necessary/cost effective.

retrofitting old traditional houses (especially stone) with higher capacity plumbing was expensive and infeasible, so putting heaters in appliances was a cope for markets that needed it.

[mattclarkdotnet]

Quite, another thing to add to the list of USAian weird exceptions.

[woodpanel]

I've micro-optimized my dishwasher setup to have all my 100+ pods and other in-bulk dishwashing-chemicals stored in a compartment between my two dishwashers.

I'm also firmly in the camp of having a flat cutlery compartment at the top and not that inefficient, and uncivilized, scarring, basket in bottom section.

Until seeing that video I thought I was crazy. I've found my master.

[koolba]

You have two dishwashers in one kitchen?

[matt-attack]

I never understood the requirement for having to preheat your pipes. The dishwasher has access to a hotline, and a drain. Why wouldn’t it just run the hot water for 60 seconds to ensure it has maximum heat. This would just be a software feature, and cost nothing on their part.

It seems so arcane for the operator to have to do this before running a cycle

[Telaneo]

There are regulations on water usage for dishwashers. That purge would eat into its water usage.

Yes, purging the cold water manually does exactly the same thing. We live in a flawed world.

[tmsh]

Interestingly the Gemini summary is nowhere near as good. But when it is... how helpful will that be! So many things with a very good summary will save so much time / avoid having to dive into unless truly in need of the details.

But the quality of the summary - and maybe the ability to expand it if slightly more details are required - and the low latency with that - are all super important. In that sense, AI can potentially save a lot of time in getting the right information quickly.

[alvah]

I summarise YT videos with Gemini all the time. You can easily control the length and depth of the summary & get it to focus on particular things etc, before investing time in watching it, only to find out it's promotional, superficial, clickbait, or some combination of all 3.

[tguvot]

i have miele dishwasher with detergent powder cartridge that allows dishwasher to dispense it at will. it never used during pre-wash cycle in any of the programs that dishwasher has.