[Ardon]

Might be useful to ask a different question: What makes people happy?

It's things like relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. (and many, many more)

Then the real question emerges: How many of those happiness 'sources' are made better by intelligence? What percentage?

Relationships? Seems like no. Work? Also seems like no, lots of work doesn't make use of a high IQ that people enjoy nonetheless. Accomplishment? Strikes me as most likely of the three, but it's also very relative.

And another thought,

Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two, you have to dip out to the material conditions. Like: someone who can jump high is fitter > fitter people are healthier > healthier people have more mental time to be empathetic with > people who can jump high are more empathetic. For intelligence, we say smart people are happier. Same thing, happiness is not directly correlated. Instead: Smart people are better able to create the outcomes they want > They select outcomes that make them happy > Their environment makes them happy > Smart people are happier. (These are illustrations of the idea, not actual logical chains or claims.)

[zdragnar]

As I heard someone say, happiness is your reality minus your expectations.

Smart people see more variables that could be changed, more components that could be modified, and are less likely to accept things as they are. This creates a false sense of ease by which reality could be modified, and thus higher expectations for the world around them.

I suspect this misplaces happiness and contentment, but the two are also very strongly correlated for many people.

[chermi]

I think smart people are told much more often as kids how bright of a future they have. So they build up expectations of "succeeding" in some sense (becoming a doctor, getting rich, etc.). These are the sort of expectations you mention in your quote. Not only is there often pressure put on you if you're smart, you adopt those expectations yourself. Or at least hold yourself to that standard. Of course, being smart doesn't automatically equal success, there are so many other factors. So people often fall short of expectations and feel shitty about themselves and are unhappy. Then there's also the fact that high achievers often hold themselves to unrealistic standards even if they "succeed", so they also struggle to be happy.

[jongjong]

Yes, and also, being able to perceive the world in high resolution when everyone else is blind has its own challenges.

Less intelligent people may be asking you to step in front of a bus because they don't see the bus and you cannot convince them that the bus exists because they're looking in the same direction as you and they don't see anything there. They don't trust your judgement, especially when others who also have equally poor vision agree with them and side against you.

The majority of people have poor vision and so they see the same vague blurry shapes as each other. Because of this, they will often agree with one another and side against intelligent people; who are a minority.

Moreover, it's easier to form consensus over blurry/vague concepts. This is the principle behind fortune-telling. Intelligent people will tend to disagree about details. Because they can see much more detail, there are more contentious points to argue about. It's harder for intelligent people to form consensus.

Being intelligent is a source of unhappiness because it is isolating to not be able to discuss what you see with others. It's like living alone in a parallel universe. You can see lower dimensions but you can't communicate to anyone else about the extra dimensions that exist in your reality because they are incapable of comprehending them. Plato's Allegory of the Cave comes to mind.

[cortesoft]

There was a movie a while back that talked about what makes people happy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_(2011_film)

It had some interesting ideas, and one of the things that stuck with me is the idea of your brain being a "difference engine" in that the variation is what matters. If we don't experience pain, we can't experience pleasure.

It seems a bit simplistic when stated that way, but I think there is something to it.

Another thing I have come to believe as I have aged is that our western (American especially) society places too much emphasis on happiness, in that we think happiness is (and should be) the prime goal of every human. I have come to believe that less and less, and think something like satisfaction, contentment, and purpose are much more important as life goals than happiness. Happiness is an important part of life, and is important for reaching the other goals I mentioned, but it is not the end goal (to me). I think most of us somewhat intuitively understand this, although our response is often to redefine what happiness is rather than concluding happiness isn't our end goal.

If happiness was everything, we would be much more accepting and encouraging towards hedonism than we are. A heroin addict who has a good clean supply and no responsibilities would be the ultimate dream life if we truly believed pure happiness was the most important thing.

[FloorEgg]

Satisfaction is reality minus expectations.

"Smart" tends to be used such that includes intelligence (rate of learning) and knowledge (how much is known).

Satisfaction comes from accepting what is outside our control (accurate expectations), and making continuous progress/improvement on what is within our control (our own perceptions and actions).

Intelligence and knowledge maybe don't correlate as much with wisdom as one would expect. I have met people who learn slow and don't know much but are very wise, and satisfied.

Lastly, happiness is always fleeting. Happiness can't be enduring, but it can be blocked by ego and high expectations. Satisfaction can be enduring, but correlates with virtuous actions, not intelligence.

[stephen_g]

> As I heard someone say, happiness is your reality minus your expectations.

I don’t think that’s true, e.g. from my personal experience, I’m far more optimistic than my wife, but even though she has far lower expectations she still takes negative things with far more disappointment than I do when we face the same hardship. So generally I’m a much happier person despite having higher expectations.

This is independent of intellect too for us, she would readily admit I’m more intelligent.

I don’t know whether it’s a innate thing or something learned but the key seems to be that I am always primed to look on the bright side, like my brain automatically weights positives much stronger than negatives, whereas hers does the opposite.

For both of us this seems to be self-reinforcing too because we always have confirmation bias because I’ve focused on the positives and can say “see it wasn’t that bad” and she will be like “see, I thought it would be bad” for the same thing.

[hinkley]

Polymaths in particular could be good or great at many things. It’s a matter of choice and opportunity. But they can’t be great at absolutely everything. So one choice closes another. And the grass is greener on the other side.

[hamburglar]

There’s a great book by Arthur Brooks called From Strength to Strength which has a slightly different take on “reality minus expectations”: think of it as a fraction, where what you have is the numerator and what you want is the denominator. If you keep ratcheting up what you want (which is what the hedonic treadmill is all about —- you reach a goal and enjoy it for a nanosecond and then suddenly you need an even bigger achievement to satisfy you), you push happiness further away. And conversely, if you learn to want things that are actually in reach, you become happier as you achieve them.

[abhaynayar]

I'd heard "happiness is reality minus expectations" before but never thought much of it. I had high expectations of myself in certain areas of life and worked hard towards them and I thought that they were realistic, so despite not having achieved them I still had hope.

And now over time reality has caught up to me and I've become sadder because I've realized that my expectations were indeed higher than my circumstances. I was just a naive oblivious idiot and life has now shown me that. It's sad but I now have just let go. I still am working towards stuff just playing to my strengths and inclinations instead of my wants.

[accrual]

> As I heard someone say, happiness is your reality minus your expectations.

Similarly, stress is the difference between ones expected reality and ones actual reality.

Less expectation, less stress. More acceptance, more happiness.

[DisruptiveDave]

Joy is whatever is happening right now minus your opinion of it. (personally, I'd revise that by swapping "joy" with "contentment" or "peace")

[BrokenCogs]

That's a good quote, but it suggests that unhappy people are those who overthink and have unrealistic expectations, whereas truly happy people have expectations that match their reality. so in the end, maybe smart people are those who are better at setting their expectations compared to others (maybe more ambitious type A folk)

[koakuma-chan]

Happiness is just chemicals, it has nothing to do with that.

[borroka]

"Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two"

- I disagree. If we consider happiness, as we should, as something that can be achieved and not simply granted (for example, the ability to walk is granted, it is not something that humans, apart from pathologies and special cases, have to develop through conscious effort), there should be a positive correlation between intelligence and happiness. To jump higher than you currently can, assuming there is no coach to develop a program, you need to understand what the limiting factors are and train to improve the functioning of the “mechanism,” for example, by losing weight, increasing maximum and explosive strength, using the correct jumping technique, etc.

I believe that often the most intelligent people tend to enjoy thinking more than doing, and thinking too much does not lead to being happier or jumping higher. The limiting factor, more often than not, is not thinking, assuming sufficient intelligence, but the execution part.

I remember reading on Twitter a few years ago about an academic researcher explaining how they had come to the conclusion that exercise would improve their quality of life. They cited a series of articles, reasoned in terms of life expectancy and biomarkers, and concluded that exercise would be a net positive factor in their lives. A lot of neurotic reasoning that needs to quibble over the obvious before taking action.

Many such cases.

[curmudgeon22]

I agree with this. I quibble with the wording "enjoy" thinking. It's probably also true, but it's not always the enjoyment of it, but a general propensity to overthink or dig into the weeds more, with the resulting less actual doing.

And if you dig into the weeds enough, you can find alternatives and counterarguments which can lead to analysis paralysis.

[uberduper]

If I'm smart, I certainly don't feel like it.

I can tell you I do not enjoy thinking. I hate it. It is a compulsion that I cannot avoid. I know that it makes most interactions in my life more difficult. I know it's a source of unhappiness. I cannot stop thinking.

I want to do. Not think. I fail to do. I think about failure.

[B-Con]

> Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two, you have to dip out to the material conditions.

I think the reason to expect a correlation is simple: Intelligence should produce a better ability to recognize patterns and identify the most useful ones. In a chaotic world, the things that can lead to a desired outcome are not always clear. It takes time and reasoning to cut through the noise and figure out how to get things done. There is absolutely a reason to suspect that reasoning faster and abstractly would make this easier, and thus produce more overall rewards.

Anytime intelligence is not associated with something, I interpret that to mean the topic is likely not a "hard" min/max problem.

Turns out, most of the human aspect of life is not a hard min/max problem.

[ozim]

Most human aspect of life is dealing with other people.

That definitely is not min/max problem.

[somenameforme]

I'd take a different answer to this question: philosophy. In times before Abrahamic religion developing or adopting a life philosophy was seen as a practical obligation for a man. This is where you saw the rise of everything from the Pythagorean to the Stoics. It seems that the rise of Abrahamic religions is what largely brought an end to this and mandated a sort of one-size-fits-all philosophy for everybody.

Now in modern times many people have moved away from religion, yet most aren't replacing that philosophical void with anything comparable. And I think this naturally leads to things like hedonism which is completely unsatisfying over time, or even nihilism which is even less satisfying. One could even argue this issue is directly related to the collapse of fertility in developed nations.

I think that a personal life philosophy is absolutely critical for having a contended life. And I use contended instead of 'happy' as part of my own philosophy of life. I don't think happiness is or should be a goal. Happiness is a naturally liminal emotion. And seeking to extend it is only likely to leave one 'unhappy', so to speak. So instead I think we should pursue contentedness. Being satisfied or pleased with one's life does not mean one is necessarily happy, but it certainly means you're content with it.

[foobarian]

> collapse of fertility in developed nations

My pet theory is that once societies stop enslaving women, enough choose not to bear children to skew the stats below replacement level.

[margalabargala]

The miniscule amount of written work that survives to the present really makes it difficult to do any more than speculate about the philosophies broadly held in the times before Abrahamic religion.

[GoblinSlayer]

>Now in modern times many people have moved away from religion, yet most aren't replacing that philosophical void with anything comparable.

They replace it with postmodernism. It's incomparable on the scale of propaganda, yeah.

>nihilism which is even less satisfying

That's a myth. Nihilism is fine if you do it correctly.

[I-M-S]

Thank you for this perspective. It's not something I considered yet it deeply resonated with me.

[verisimi]

I think happiness is an inevitable byproduct of honestly following your innate sense of self. Intelligent people can be dishonest with themselves, not know themselves and be (more) capable of lying to themselves and coming up with justifications to do what they mentally want (rather than following their innate sense), thereby trapping themselves in endless dishonest but justified loops.

[GoblinSlayer]

>One could even argue this issue is directly related to the collapse of fertility in developed nations.

Or because information space was monopolized by oligarchs, then they decide what you think.

[interstice]

You could also say that the hedonic treadmill runs faster. Getting a result that takes a smart person a day instead of lets say a week means repeating that 7 times (successfully) to feel like the week was well spent.

[y-curious]

This is an interesting take. Your expectations for yourself get higher the more you successfully do something hard. Hmm

[ge96]

For me it's simple: a big open field with a blue sky, green grass, sunny, rc plane flying around DLG specifically - learned this when I was younger

Now just burdened with debt/in suburbs, trying to get out and then live on a ranch

Staring at a big body of water or the stars is calming too

[thinkingtoilet]

>Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic.

I laughed at this. However, I have to slightly disagree. I think there is a connection. I find the smarter people I know are actually happy, but they tend to be people who read books, who follow the news, and who care about the world at large and that is something that can easily make you sad. I'm not saying you need to be extra smart to do those things, I'm saying that smart people tend to do those things more than others.

[mapcars]

> It's things like relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. (and many, many more)

Thats absolutely wrong and this is the reason why nothing works and being happy became and endless quest in the western culture.

In the eastern spiritual tradition they found the exact ways of managing body, mind, emotions and energy to reach highest peaks of bliss and ecstasy, and I speak from my own experience, its possible to feel so good that no amount of money, relationships, fame, power, whatever other things you can imagine will make you ever feel.

Because the real thing is happening inside, all the outside things you use to try to provoke inner experience, but it only works for a little bit.

Here its explained in a better way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY5l0k6BTvc

[rawgabbit]

> Might be useful to ask a different question: What makes people happy?

This is the age old question. For me at least, the quest for meaning lead me to reason. Reason and logic, then led me to two choices. First is there is no meaning, no purpose, and life is what you make or not make of it; this is more commonly known as nihilism. The second choice is a literal leap of faith; this argues that humans are incapable of understanding of the purpose of life and we need to have faith in the existence of a benevolent God. The leap of faith ultimately leads me back to the question of what is God? Catholic tradition defines God as the source of caritas also known as agape.

[Induane]

It might be the case that the nuance is insufficient (false dichotomy).

Suppose someone asks the [emotionally loaded] question:

"Is abortion wrong?"

Technically this is a yes or no question; a binary.

One can quite easily answer that it depends, and then all the nuances can try to be enumerated in more detail. The fact is that the information presented was not actually nuanced enough to answer yes or no despite being worded as such.

You performed some similar gymnastics here. You assume it must be the case that it is one or the other when it may not be. Maybe meaning is local. Maybe it is real but subjective. Maybe it isn't a meaningful term (lol). Maybe it contains an intrinsic paradox!

A perhaps alternative question might be: "What is it that wishes to know the answer to that question?"

Figuring that out might be a necessary prerequisite.

[dvsfish]

Reason and logic lead you to only two choices, where one choice immediately begs you to abandon reason and logic and just believe what feels right? I think reason and logic can take you further than that. We can explore a spectrum of ideas without committing immediately.

[GoblinSlayer]

>First is there is no meaning, no purpose, and life is what you make or not make of it; this is more commonly known as nihilism.

You say it as if it's something bad. It's not unprecedented: inquisitors believed spinning Earth was bad, but now it somehow isn't.

[fsckboy]

>why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two

but there is a direct link! have you ever watched a Slam Dunk competition? people strive to jump the highest, and zero empathy is shown

[TomMasz]

I think you've hit on something important with work and accomplishment. I've heard software developers say over and over again they don't feel like they've actually accomplished anything when they complete some coding task. It's not just bug fixes, but tasks in general. Some of them take up hobbies like woodworking, where the results of your work are something tangible you can see and touch. But it's not just software development, a lot of jobs involve work that seemingly produces nothing despite the time and effort spent. It's not hard to see why so many people find their work miserable.

[throw_this_one]

Yeah I mean literally cleaning my house, watching dirt suck up, and reorganizing can be much more satisfying than fixing some stubborn backend systems bug that takes years of knowledge to have the mental tools to fix - lol

[jstummbillig]

> How many of those happiness 'sources' are made better by intelligence?

Well, theoretically all of them, depending on how you define "intelligence" and, oh boy, if the last 3-ish years have taught me anything, it's definitely not that.

[wvh]

I think there is some value in being able to live in the moment, like say a cat: one moment you have a death scare, the next you're kind of hungry or sleepy. I feel that smart people see a lot more in the past, present and future, all the things themselves, and the things behind the things, and it's a whole lot harder to live in the moment and not ruminate and dwell on things.

Alternatively, maybe it's just that overthinking that is driving some aspect of what we call intelligence; the ability to plan and see things in complex layers.

Good amounts of happiness surely require some selective blindness.

[Scarblac]

Don't most people have their own base level of happiness? Some people are just always happier than others, regardless of circumstances. It's a personality trait.

[auselen]

For me it is a state of mind.

[agumonkey]

It also varies during one's life. During my twenties, internal/intellectual stimulation was 90% of what I was seeking. After 35~ the need for family, social bonding, overshadowed that pretty much completely. I still need and like intellectual growth, but only after the other needs are taken care of. Being smart for its own sake kinda hurts now.

[kaicianflone]

Ignorance is bliss

[tantalor]

'tis folly to be wise

[drdaeman]

> What makes people happy?

Technically, it's hormones. What makes brains produce them is the perceptions of external world, but the details are different for every culture and then different for every individual.

Now, proverbially, more knowledge brings more sadness^W stress, so perceptive people must have extra hurdles to overcome than blissfully ignorant ones.

[ranger_danger]

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief."

Ecclesiastes 1:18

[nashashmi]

You could also ask the same question to why dumb people are happier. What is it about intelligence that robs people of joy?

[aleph_minus_one]

> What is it about intelligence that robs people of joy?

A hypothesis: intelligence makes it possible to realize how unfair you are treated by other people and society.

This is also a premise in the respective part of the well-known science-fiction novel "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes.

[boesboes]

Smarts can impact all thos heavily. Relationships get complicated after years of exclusion and jealousy, work might not be as satifying if you see all the problems and solutions and things that are accopmplishments might not feel like they are.

These are very common and well documented issues among gifted people.

[directevolve]

There are explanations for the equal happiness stats other than the validity of IQ tests. People’s top goal might be something other than happiness. Happiness and other goals might trade off. Happiness reports may be relative to an expected baseline that’s higher for smart people.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I was watching the first couple of seasons of The Diplomat, on Netflix.

It’s basically about a whole bunch of really smart, super-educated people, working together, or in opposition.

The relationships they depict are total chaos. Not happy at all.

I think it’s probably fairly realistic.

Many of my heroes have two-digit IQs.

Sometimes, I feel as if smart is overrated.

[saghm]

Yep, and the logical chain itself can often be pretty clear where the discrepancy lies. In order for it to have a noticeable effect, you'd need to be looking at people smart enough to correctly identify circumstances that will make them happy in advance and then be able to influence things in average more than factors outside their control influence them. I don't think most "smart" people are more smart than life is random, without even getting into how common the requisite level of self-awareness is.

[hearsathought]

> It's things like relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. (and many, many more)

That's the point. Smarter people tend to have more stable relationships, satisfying work, accomplishments. ( and many, many more ).

> How many of those happiness 'sources' are made better by intelligence?

All of them. You get better jobs with intelligence. You achieve greater accomplishments via intelligence. And your relationships tend to be better because you are in a far better position intellectually, socially and financially.

> There's no direct link between the two

You are contradicting yourself here. There is a direct link to the criteria you listed - relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment.

> Smart people are better able to create the outcomes they want > They select outcomes that make them happy > Their environment makes them happy > Smart people are happier.

No. The problem is that intelligent people eventually realize that all of it is fleeting and utlimately meaningless - relationships, work, accomplishments. (and many, many more).

[rafaelero]

Yeah, I suspect the reason the author didn't find a relationship between IQ and happiness / life satisfaction is probably because those studies were overcontrolling for intermediate variables. If money makes us happier and people with high IQ make more money, you will underestimate the relationship if you control for income.

[a123b456c]

You had me until you said that "all of it is fleeting and ultimately meaningless - relationships, work, accomplishments. (and many, many more)"

My dear friend. These are the only types of meaning that matters, and its fleeting nature is why we need to appreciate and savor them.

[petesergeant]

> What makes people happy?

Wellbutrin

[hirvi74]

I have an opportunity to try this, and I am absolutely horrified at the prospects. I've just got a bad feeling about it. Plus, I am on a medication that is quite dangerous to mix with it, so that further complicated matters.

What's so good about Bupropion?

[kakacik]

I think its much simpler. Look around at your country, at the world. Who is most celebrated, who is biggest achiever, who gets most ladies/men (stupid metric but works fine on our animal side and we are still animals deep down). People celebrate that piece of sh*t musk for ffs because he is a good manager/sales guy, while ignoring deeply flawed amoral person behind.

Its very rarely a smart decent person (and most smart folks are decent), those end up as quiet grey mouse in some lab or university position, seldom recognized for their added value. Extroverts, aggressive (to certain point at least), self-centered narcissistic egomaniacs seem to take the cake since ancient times. Those (and worse) are true decision makers, those people shape the world and its to their liking, which usually far off from what smart folks prefer seeing.

Another reason - once you are way above the crowd, you realize how stupid people often behave, how easily is to manipulate those via emotions like hate, envy, fear or inferiority complex(magas are a prime example but such folks are everywhere). If they destroy just their lives with their stupidity who cares, but since everything is connected in societies and we have ie elections, it permeates everybody's lives and you have little defense. You know the situation - clearly a stupid decision that shoots off one's foot, yet crowds cheers and yell for it, willing to fight for it. And smart decent folks are dragged along whether they like or approve it or not. It can be on a small scale but also national/global level. Who wouldn't be frustrated, continuously, during their whole lives?

Also warfare, almost always a supremely stupid move that is a loss for mankind as a whole while very few benefit. Yet look around. We should be reaching to the stars, fixing our environment properly so we can actually look in our children's and grandchildren's faces without a deep shame, yet look where world is heading steadily.

To be happy these days, you have to have lowish IQ or be an utter ignorant, or both. I can find some smaller pieces of joy like kids, hikes or other sports in mountains and so on, but I have to keep ignoring big picture continuously, how powerful do harm all of us.

[m463]

something to do, someone to love, something to look forward to