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rodarima | 3 months ago

Maintainer here.

We are currently in the process of moving Dillo away from GitHub:

- New website (nginx): https://dillo-browser.org/

- Repositories (C, cgit): https://git.dillo-browser.org/

- Bug tracker (C, buggy): https://bug.dillo-browser.org/

They should survive HN hug.

The CI runs on git hooks and outputs the logs to the web (private for now).

All services are very simple and work without JS, so Dillo can be developed fully within Dillo itself.

During this testing period I will continue to sync the GitHub git repository, but in the future I will probably mark it as archived.

discuss

bromuro|3 months ago

The website doesn’t display correctly when I increase the browser’s font size, and it doesn’t work in reader mode. :(

I have poor eyesight, so I can’t read the content.

Maxion|3 months ago

Huh? For me it works fine? Are you sure you are on https://dillo-browser.org/ ?

mhitza|3 months ago

Haven't got the chance to play around with it, but looks fun. And maybe something cool to use to repackage into an alternative Tor/I2P browser for hidden websites.

What's holding back CSS and HTML support (at their specific versions) and is there interest of expanding that support in full, but lacking resources?

lhmiles|3 months ago

Oh tor client is good idea

puttycat|3 months ago

Can you say more about why you're moving away from GitHub?

rodarima|3 months ago

Many reasons, in no particular order:

- It is extremely slow and resource intensive. Opening any link/page takes at least 3 seconds on my fastest computer, but the content is mostly text with images.

- It cannot be used without JS (it used to be at least readable, now only the issue description loads). I want the bug tracker to be readable from Dillo itself. There are several CLI options but those are no better than just storing the issues as files and using my editor.

- It forces users to create an account to interact and it doesn't interoperate with other forges. It is a walled garden owned by a for-profit corporation.

- You need an Internet connection to use it and a good one. Loading the main page of the dillo repo requires 3 MiB of traffic (compressed) This is more than twice the size of a release of Dillo (we use a floppy disk as limit). Loading our index of all opened issues downloads 7.6 KiB (compressed).

- Replying by email mangles the content (there is no Markdown?).

- I cannot add (built-in) dependencies across issues.

I'll probably write some post with more details when we finally consider the migration complete.

blks|3 months ago

MS will steal your code for their slop machines.

znpy|3 months ago

I have the fondest memories of running dillo under netbsd on my hp jornada 728, around 2008 -2009… thank you for all the work!

MarsIronPI|3 months ago

I remember installing Debian on my OLPC XO-1. Dillo and Netsurf were the only browsers that I even tried running on that thing (w. 512MB RAM). Netsurf had better compatibility, but Dillo was noticeably faster and more responsive. Truly a pleasure to use when it supported the site I was on.

jmclnx|3 months ago

And dillo still works great on NetBSD :)

I think it is becoming more important to i386 BSD, especially since i386 OpenBSD can no longer build Firefox, Seamonkey and IIRC Chrome on i386 systems.

I have been using dillo more and more as time goes on, plus you can get plugins for Gemini Protocol and Gopher.

threemux|3 months ago

Hi there - love Dillo. I use it on NetBSD and it works great. Once you're off GitHub will there be a way to get notified of releases? I use GitHub's RSS feeds for that now.

imglorp|3 months ago

Repeating a warning from github about the old URL - dillo.org is not controlled by the devs and could become a malware route, is that right?

rodarima|3 months ago

Yes, thanks for the reminder. This is what they write about:

https://dillo.org/post-sitemap.xml

At some point I should investigate if we can fill a complaint to get it taken down at least. Here is more info: https://dillo-browser.org/dillo.org.html

mtillman|3 months ago

It still has great looking icons, a proper boarder bevel, and real scroll bars. Thank you!

jagged-chisel|3 months ago

I’m imagining a comfy bevel on the bench outside your hostile where your boarders can sit happily.

eikenberry|3 months ago

What is the bug tracking software you are using?

rodarima|3 months ago

I wrote my own:

https://git.dillo-browser.org/buggy/

It fetches the issues from GitHub and stores them in <number>/index.md in Markdown format, with some special headers. I then keep the issues in a git repository:

https://git.dillo-browser.org/bugtracker/

So we have a very robust storage that we can move around and also allows me to work offline. When I want to push changes, I just push them via git, then buggy(1) runs in the server via a web hook. This also tracks the edit changes.

While typing, I often use `find . -name '*.md' | entr make` which regenerates the issues that have changed into HTML as well as the index, then sends a SIGUSR1 to dillo, which reloads the issue page.

The nice thing of allowing arbitrary HTML inline is that I can write the reproducers in the issue itself:

https://git.dillo-browser.org/bugtracker/tree/501/index.md#n...

Closing an issue is just changing the header "State: open" by "State: closed", often with a comment pointing to the merged commit.

saint_yossarian|3 months ago

https://git.dillo-browser.org/buggy/

fishgoesblub|3 months ago

Why cgit and not something nice like Gitea, or Forgejo?

Bolwin|3 months ago

They're like 10x more complex and you don't need most of their functionality for just a frontend.

That said I wish there was something a little better than cgit

thesuitonym|3 months ago

My guess is gitea and forgejo don't render well in Dillo.

winningChild|3 months ago

[deleted]

al_be_back|3 months ago

happy anniversary!

> Uses the fast and bloat-free FLTK GUI library [1]

Bloat as a moat, is sadly the strategy of much of the web or apps in recent years. High Performance has shifted into how fast we can serve bloat. Efficiency has become about pushing the most bloat with least time.

Pages are bloated, sites are bloated, browsers are bloated, browser-market is bloated (two-a-dime! or three for free). The whole damn web is a big bloat. wtf happened.

[1] https://dillo-browser.github.io/

mason_mpls|3 months ago

More memory means more memory for my website to take up!

1vuio0pswjnm7|3 months ago

"High performance has shifted into how fast we can serve bloat."

If remove ads and behavioural tracking, speed is faster

But goal of Big Tech, who make the popular browsers, is to make speed faster (fast enough) _with_ ads and tracking

User wants fast speed. User does not want ads and tracking. Big Tech wants users in order to target with ads and tracking. Big Tech tries top deliver fast speed to keep users interested

User can achieve fast speed _without_ ads and tracking

I do it every day. I do not use a large propular browser to make HTTP requests nor to read HTML

TheRealPomax|3 months ago

If you're putting everything on the same domain, I do hope you made it impossible for someone to ever get their hands on dillo-browser.org ever again.

nicoburns|3 months ago

Is there some kind of status tracker somewhere. That describes which web standards are supported?

rodarima|3 months ago

Not really. There was this list but it is outdated: https://dillo-browser.org/old/css_compat/index.html

Probably the best indicator of which features are supported is to pass as many tests as possible from WPT that cover that feature.

I did some experiments to pass some tests from WPT, but many of them require JS to perform the check (I was also reading how you do it in blitz). It would probably be the best way forward, so it indicates what is actually supported.

kragen|3 months ago

That's wonderful to see!

mixmastamyk|3 months ago

Hmm, it is tiny on my highres screen. Anyone know how to double the scale?

O1111OOO|3 months ago

Check out: /etc/dillo/dillorc

There are options here for (my setup below):

geometry=1600x900

increase font_factor=1.75

bg_color=0xFAF9F6

Start and Home pages too.

1718627440|3 months ago

How can you report something to the bug tracker?

sylware|3 months ago

If they could move away from c++ too.... like plain and simple C like the netsurf browser?

anthk|3 months ago

DIllo is much lighter and it supports Gopher, Gemini, Info, Man and potentially in a further future, URL rewritting plugins.