[adeptima]

10+ years in Japan. The message here is much deeper from my perspective. “Let’s jump on the call” is not the solution. The guy was stripped off of his face. I love Japan for being human. Small business bar or restaurant with 3 tables. Not everything should be streamlined for a quick call solution… the process was pushed on his head. Google nemawashi decision making process

[alwa]

I did as you suggested with respect to “nemawashi.” I read about that and “ringi,” and I’m glad I did. Even to get just the gist of what I’m sure is a thin interpretation: that nemawashi refers to a “laying-the-groundwork” process of circulating a proposal between peer-level counterparts, before formalizing it and proposing to act on it.

Much less crashing in with it in the form of a “SumoBot,” as Mozilla seems to have done to its non-English communities… (with the disclaimer that I have zero insight into Mozilla’s process here outside of this writer’s account).

It puts a name to a considerate consensus-based way to approach change, that seems humane (and effective) in any culture—leave it to the Japanese to have a specific term for it…

[martin_henk]

common sense... no real need for digging into japanese culture and so on. really no idea why Mozilla is so disrespectful to it's volunteers. well, that sweet 400m a year from Google... no need for volunteers anymore, eh

[TheJoeMan]

That reminds me of internet RFC’s… like by the time they are formally published, no the author is not interested in your “comment”.

[pengaru]

We Americans call this garnering buy-in.

[xaedes]

> It puts a name to a considerate consensus-based way to approach change

When reading about nemawashi I immediately thought about its usage in software refactoring.

This is something you often intuitively do when making bigger refactors. Lay the foundations before actually doing it. Affected code parts and stakeholders should not be surprised by one big change. Instead they should be consulted before hand, building consensus, modify the planned big refactor itself and preparing the individual parts for it by small changes. Otherwise you will encounter a lot of friction, introduce bugs, etc.

It is very nice to have a proper term for this.

[p0w3n3d]

I predict that these times of excessive trust in AI during decision making will be written in history books at some point of time. Providing that there will be books at all.

I already suspect that Duolingo destroyed real people's recording of Spanish conversations and replaced them with AI. For example I can quite often hear continental Spanish accent which has never been taught to me before (as I started with Duolingo as a freshman) - it used to be always American Spanish accent. Wrongly cut conversions is another matter.

[rester324]

I am not sure I am buying this. There is nothing human about japanese business procedures. Most japanese business procedures usually only serve micro managing purposes, and the nemawashi procedure is basically stripping people who were not consulted before, from giving their honest input and impact in the decision making. In my opinion it creates more problems than it solves

[ekianjo]

> nemawashi

Long time in Japan too, I would not consider newamashi as being Japan's strengths.

[krick]

I can imagine what you mean, but since I am not in Japan, it would be interesting why you feel that way.

[agnishom]

Isn't "nemawashi" just a term for building rapport and sensible networking practices, but in Japanese?

[guicho271828]

Japanese here. You got it right. That message is an ultimatum. No mercy for the dishonorable.

[trallnag]

"I love Japan for being human". What does this even mean? Immediately followed by something about food?

[pezezin]

Be glad he didn't mention that Japan has four seasons...

[jesterson]

> Not everything should be streamlined for a quick call solution

If you have a better solution to correct an error or solve a problem than having a call/meeting and openly discuss situation and possible resolutions - I would love to know about that.

[port11]

The response was condescending and very… American. The call ensures what, that you'll be more receiving to their grievances? That nothing is on the record? A lot of people don't want to jump in calls, ever. The initial response should've validated that the community feels slighted, that they should've brought them onboard for the decision making, etc.

Acknowledging the mistake immediately seems like a good start.

[Jach]

Written communication is usually better and allows for more clarity, investigation, preparation, careful thought, and exploring of solutions. When it's not better it's usually because one party doesn't like to read or write and so avoids it as much as they can.

[watwut]

> If you have a better solution to correct an error or solve a problem than having a call/meeting and openly discuss situation and possible resolutions - I would love to know about that.

I do, actually. You first read what the other person wrote. Then your response will take whatever they wrote into account. If they did not expressed themselves clearly, you explain what it is that you do not understand. The "We want to make sure we truly understand what you're struggling with." is wholly inappropriate if the only reason you do not understand is that you did not read what they wrote.

Second, you dont suggest the other person is struggling with something, unless they are actually struggling with something. The original post does not show someone struggling at all.

Tl;dr if you want to "openly discuss situation and possible resolutions" you dont start by ignoring what the other person wrote. This response makes it very clear that manager does not intend to openly discuss the situation or possible resolutions, the manager is not taking the complaint seriously at all.

[skywhopper]

How is a private call about a community issue an “open” discussion?

[ezoe]

Exactly, this is just a 面子(face) problem.

Also, his demanding of not using his work for AI training is nonsense. Because entire articles, this one included is published under a Creative Commons license.

Didn't he agree on that?

Mozilla must reject his further contribution because he stated he don't understand the term of Creative Commons license. His wish granted I guess.

[wartywhoa23]

Creative Commons License was created without any AI in mind.

And

> Licensees may copy, distribute, display, perform and make derivative works and remixes based on it only if they GIVE THE AUTHOR or licensor THE CREDITS

[kuschku]

Is the AI published under the same CC license, with attribution?