[abe94]

Maybe the subsidized transit is normal in europe, and universal childcare in some parts of europe (definetly not all of western europe), but this article is stretching when claiming state run grocery stores are normal.

Its also conveniently leaving out the policy ideas on reducing policing, and introducing mental health crisis workers which have been tried in the US (SF) and worked disastrously.

[tkel]

17 states have government owned stores, it's common across the US. They sell liquor and in some states they also sell groceries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_sta...

On policing, Urban Alchemy is the company that was contracted in SF. Having worked directly with Urban Alchemy for years in LA, their staff are severly underqualified and 95% of the time will do nothing once arriving on site. The most I've ever seen them do is break up a fight. Is doing nothing better than actively harming people and making the situation worse, as the police often do? Yes. Is it improving the situation? No. Also, what is your definition of success? No first responder can prevent a crime from happening, all responders arrive after crime has occurred. Putting people into cages as the only option actually leads to worse outcomes for crime. And after decades and billions of dollars spent on the failed war on drugs, we know that is not a viable or successful approach. Part of the job these alternatives are supposed to be doing, is addressing root upstream causes of crime.

On the other hand, the alternative to policing pilot in Denver, Support Team Assistance Response (STAR), has been a wild success.

[jaredklewis]

I’m continually frustrated by the amount of press the grocery store thing gets. I’m probably against it, though it’s hard to know because there are not clearly outlined policy goals for what the grocery stores would try to accomplish and how. But that’s beside the point. My issue is that a government run grocery stores are one the least remarkable points of Mamdani’s platform. NYC already has a budget shortfall of ~$5bn and he wants to spend billions on free buses, tens of billions on child care, and (IIRC) borrow another $70 billion for housing development.

NYC tax revenues are not growing and even optimistic estimates of the proposed tax increases (which the mayor doesn’t have the power to impose anyway) top out at $8 billion.

This is the epitome of magical thinking. Even with the most optimistic estimates of revenue increases and conservative estimates for the proposed spending, the numbers are miles away from adding up. And we’re talking about some municipal grocery stores? Like even if he really screws it up, the cost is probably only in the hundreds of millions.

[abe94]

A liquor store and a grocery store aren't the same thing, they were set up for different reasons, have different policy goals and are run differently. Also if the goal is helping with "food deserts" - which seems like a tenuous claim already for a city with a ton of bodegas there are better less costly solutions. When comparing actual state run grocery store pilots (in the US) they have been a disaster - see the kansas city example here (https://www.kcur.org/news/2025-08-12/kansas-city-grocery-sto...)

Denver is the best example in the US that saw limited success, and one of the very few - in most places similar approaches were tried (in the US), we were worse off then just keeping police as the primary responders. In NYC specifically we tried a pilot recently, and it was (unsurprisingly) ineffectual - where police had to be called as backup 65% anyway(https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/audit-of-the-behavioral-...). So no in NY at least police don't make the situation worse thats a myth.

[rufus_foreman]

Government owned liquor stores were put in place because the free market was too good at supplying people with liquor, and governments wanted to put restrictions and guardrails around people's access to it.

Is that the case with groceries?

[wutbrodo]

> No first responder can prevent a crime from happening, all responders arrive after crime has occurred

I've never understood this claim. Are you unaware of the concept of deterrence, or do you reject that it exists?

[rsynnott]

Per the article, they exist elsewhere, including elsewhere in the US. Most European cities don't typically really suffer from the problem that New York apparently has (where groceries in New York are apparently significantly more expensive than outside, and significant areas don't have proper supermarkets at all). If they did, in many countries there would absolutely be some sort of intervention.

[rsynnott]

Sidenote: Has there been serious research into _why_ these 'food deserts' happen (or at least their urban form; the rural version seems more explicable), and/or why they seem to happen in the US more than in other developed countries, does anyone know? On the face of it, even as a fairly market-sceptical person, this is one that I would kind of expect the invisible hand to deal with.

[seba_dos1]

"State run grocery stores" perhaps aren't, but consumers' co-operatives and subsidized milk bars certainly are.

[gruez]

>"State run grocery stores" perhaps aren't, but consumers' co-operatives [...] are

That's a pretty important difference you're eliding. "state run" is where most of the objection is. Coops get nowhere near the pushback (if any) that state run businesses (ie. "communism") get from Americans.

[port11]

State-run liquor stores are quite normal in Norway. So at least there's that, it depends on your definition of groceries. I've just walked home with the kid and people are drinking beer at 11AM, which is… liquid cereal.

[mmooss]

> introducing mental health crisis workers which have been tried in the US (SF) and worked disastrously.

I've read it has worked very well, though not necessarily in SF in particular. Do you happen to remember where you read that?

It's hard to imagine why having mental health professionals address mental health problems would be a bad idea.

[abe94]

Here's an account from the NYC government itself on how it hasn't worked well - https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/audit-of-the-behavioral-...