Remember that immediately after Mao's Hundred Flowers Campaign, in which the CCP solicited "honest feedback" about how well they were doing, came the Anti-Rightist Campaign, in which the complainers were identified and punished, sometimes executed.
If the decision makers are welcoming honest feedback, chances are pretty good it's to put you on a potential troublemaker list so they'll know just who to hand pink slips to at the next round of needed layoffs (if not before).
Unless you're prepared to lose your job TODAY, treat your employer like the Roman Empire, and the CEO like Caesar.
I’m amazed how many people leave on bad terms. Over any medium and long term time horizon it’s a terrible strategy. You never know who will do a quiet back channel reference, and many times we wind up working for the same people.
The other piece of advice about documentation is important beyond leaving for a new job. Many people lose promotions because “who could possibly backfill them?” Creating a high talent well documented organization is a great signal for promotion readiness, and takes a roadblock away from it too.
There's the founders podcast about Elon Musk. Apparently he stayed in good contact with the Paypal people, even though they fired him and later on that relationship saved Spacex.
The best time to document isn’t two weeks before leaving. It’s right now.
Clearly AI written or virtue-signaling post, because this doesn't make any sense.
If you are leaving it is that you are unhappy with the company, and you owe them nothing and they owe nothing to you, I don't see why you would stress yourself with documenting your work when you are leaving... Their loss if you go.
But even more, why a small employee in his right mind would make himself replaceable for the good of the company...
Yes, this is a best virtue signaling or an idealistic point of view, in fact it may be some form of humble brag: "I am so good, that I don't need to keep leverage to advance my career".
The hilarious part is that clearly his approach doesn't work very well, since he admitted not getting a promotion.
Unless you are getting paid for it and it's part of the job description, I don't see why one would want to document his own process to get stuff done. Like the secret sauce is basically the reason to keep you around, if you give it for free, they can just swap you for a junior that will just have to copy your process.
This is already what happens when you decide to leave and they give you someone to "train".
I know this type of person, because I used to be one. They have a very naive, idealistic view on the world and feel like they have to serve others before them even though basically everyone does the reverse (especially companies) and they feel shame or guilt if they would put themselves first.
The reality is that it is the only way that things work out for you in the long term, because nobody else than yourself is going to think about your interests first.
Having leverage to negotiate your position inside a company is basically a necessity, and it's not playing dirty, that's just how things works. If you give the good stuff for free, not only you undersell yourself, but you make everyone else look bad and have to work twice as hard.
The issues he had probably comes from his refusal to play the game with the same rules as everyone else, or even inability to see that there is a game in the first place.
Before AI people would still say things like this. "The best time to plant a tree is 10 years ago. The second best time is now". Among the set of such constructs, some are overused by LLM and have become a symbolic of it, but they will still show up in human writing with the same frequency as before.
yes, english is not my first language, so I use AI to helping me structure the article, but I've edited and fully reviewed and take responsibility for every word in it. (Anyway I will trust less AI next time, so thank you)
What I was trying to say is that if you do less because you don't like where you work, you are losing opportunity to learn skills, or worst: you are learning to do less in general. How can you find a new and better job if you are doing less?
I started working toward a promotion to staff engineer at the beginning of 2023. By the end of the year, my manager said I was ready, but he had been asked to step back into an IC role, so he couldn't start my promotion paperwork.
My new manager felt I wasn't ready for promotion, but she claimed I wouldn't have to start over. It felt like starting over though, because it took another year to convince her. During that time I consulted regularly with her and my director of engineering—seeking and taking every possible opportunity to demonstrate that I could operate at the staff level.
My manager then spent six months writing an 18-page promotion packet, highlighting my accomplishments, and outlining why I deserved the promotion. The packet was approved by my director of engineering, so they both felt I was ready. It was then presented to an anonymous promotion committee, which ultimately makes the promotion decision.
Despite two and a half years of effort, the committee rejected my promotion. They even provided a list of 12 bullet points where they felt I was coming up short.
I gave up trying for the promotion, for my mental health. Sheesh.
Talk to an employment attorney. This sounds like potential "bait and switch" practices that have strung you along for less pay/accumulated earnings.
I'm sorry you got such a mixed signal from your engineering tree and the promotion committee. Need to do more research on that promotion committee. This sounds like the committee nightmare that many PhD candidates face.
Same type of BS happened to me at my last company, which ultimately let to me being extremely unhappy there and leaving. If I hadn’t gone for the promotion at all I’d probably still be there.
I’ll never understand why companies as an almost universal rule make it as difficult as possible to get promoted or get a raise but will hire less qualified outsiders for those positions at higher pay without blinking an eye.
Very wise; have been following this approach since years and I highly recommend it. This one (from the article) is a gem:
"I’ll work like I might stay forever, and like I might leave tomorrow"
Besides practical benefits of this approach mentioned in the article, it's the attitude that brings you closer to stoicism that just makes your whole life, not only professional one, better.
> I was expecting [...] like doing an interview every six months
Incidentally, I hear advice like that (especially a variation, of "practice" interviews) on HN, but I really wish people wouldn't do that.
Actually, please don't do this resource burning with startups or other SMBs, unless it's clear they want to burn resources.
But feel free to burn the resources of FAANGs, who mostly created the idea that interviews should be a series of performance rituals that you have to practice and refresh on.
(Though the related phenomenon, of techbro frequent job-hopping, wasn't the fault of FAANGs. It seemed to start during the dotcom boom, pre-Google, especially in the Bay Area, AFAICT, where a lot of people were chasing the most promising rapid IPO. At the time, the rumors/grumbling I was hearing from the Bay Area made me want to do a startup in Cambridge/Boston instead, just to avoid that culture. After the dotcom IPO gold rush ended, it seemed that job-hopping for big pay boosts and promotions became a thing, and that job-hopping culture never went away. But I don't think we'll find much team loyalty anywhere anymore, not from companies nor from colleagues, so that's no longer a reason I'd avoid the Bay Area specifically.)
Well written blog post, but its a bit too adjacent to LinkedIn slop-posting in actual message, for me.
I can't help but think the real take away is that you should trust your gut and quit a lot sooner and the poster basically wasted a year being jerked around.
If you are telling your employer you are unhappy for a whole year and they don't fix the conditions leading to your unhappiness, they are telling you they don't value you enough to make those changes (for the sake of simplicity, I'll just assume the employee's specific points of dissatisfaction were reasonable fixes and not ridiculous asks).
You don't owe them a year of soft landing when you quit, in the vast majority of cases they wouldn't have given you anywhere near that if they let you go.
Absolutely. You employer is willing and able to fire you and eliminate your healthcare coverage at the drop of a hat with no remorse, and we should all never forget, and always be prepared for that fact.
I agree with the gist of what you are saying wholeheartedly. Always be prepared to be thrown under the bus by your employer, no matter how unlikely it seems... but that isn't really the message of the original blog post beyond the possibility space of the headline.
The actual contents are almost the opposite, the blog poster stayed around in their role for an entire year while letting their employer know they were unhappy.
I'm all for professionalism when leaving a job. For any full-time position I've held I've always followed the 2 week notice standard as a minimum and have even done part-time work past the 2 week period in a couple of special cases where I understood the burden on the company I was leaving was more than a 2 week transition could handle.
... but I don't see how it counts as being ready to quit at any time if that quitting is the result of the company not being able to fix a job situation you've told them isn't working out for you over the course of an entire year.
Yes, you will need to pay for the coverage that the employer was paying for, but that's not "eliminate your healthcare coverage at the drop of a hat with no remorse".
"For a year before leaving, I talked openly with my supervisor and HR about my dissatisfaction"
Big, big, big no. Might have worked for OP this time but in general this will backfire drastically. In many European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee.
Indeed. I _have_ been able to (mostly) talk about things that I was dissatisfied about, but out of dozen bosses I had, that was with only two. I wouldn't trust the others to start looking into a replacement the moment I gave even a hint of dissatisfaction. For some others, I could express disagreement about outcomes or company policies, but in some cases even pushing too much on those topics can get you fast tracked out. I have seen it happen.
To be able to have (again, mostly) honest conversations with a boss or HR is a privilege. In 99% of the cases, HR is there to protect the company, there were only a handful of HR employees that went above and beyond. And even then, you had to make sure not to use some triggering words. I mean this in the literal sense, there are a few things that, if you say, that triggers an automatic HR response, regardless of who you are talking to. Hinting of leaving, even with an unspecified timeframe, is one of them.
- Before being ready to leave, make sure you either have, or will have, another opportunity or no need for an employer. VERY often (especially in tech!) employers/managers will have employees, not for their labor, but for vanity, to build a pyramid to themselves, or for image reasons. Such people will immediately send you packing for complaining about non-productivity. Your perception of your superior's alignment can easily be wrong.
Given that precondition... I agree with the premise.
Yes, I have done it 10 years ago: I've left a job because of burnout without another opportunity. After that, I've panicked for 6 months without a job. Never again: I promised myself to never leave a job if I was without energy.
Some of the best work I’ve ever done has been in preparation for leaving. Documentation, automation, security, reliability. Theres nothing like the clarity of leaving to show the gaps.
When I read the title, I was curious: is it about a business setting, or, maybe, about a private relationship / marriage context? As someone, who has walked away from more than one relationship, I see this perfectly applicable and sensible advice in both contexts, really. Thanks.
Some good advice but terrible form. Some of you software people have a loud, pretentious, and arrogant ego problem.
With self-serving advertblogs like this, I always imagine that Simpsons episode where Bart has a pot on his head and is banging two pans together, yelling "I AM SO GREAT, I AM SO GREAT, EVERYBODY LOVES ME, I AM SO GREAT!" lol
Please cease and desist from labeling things as AI. If you want to criticize the material, assume good faith and criticize it as if it is written by a human.
bitwize|3 months ago
If the decision makers are welcoming honest feedback, chances are pretty good it's to put you on a potential troublemaker list so they'll know just who to hand pink slips to at the next round of needed layoffs (if not before).
Unless you're prepared to lose your job TODAY, treat your employer like the Roman Empire, and the CEO like Caesar.
dullcrisp|3 months ago
mathattack|3 months ago
The other piece of advice about documentation is important beyond leaving for a new job. Many people lose promotions because “who could possibly backfill them?” Creating a high talent well documented organization is a great signal for promotion readiness, and takes a roadblock away from it too.
tschellenbach|3 months ago
There's the founders podcast about Elon Musk. Apparently he stayed in good contact with the Paypal people, even though they fired him and later on that relationship saved Spacex.
1970-01-01|3 months ago
throwuxiytayq|3 months ago
greatgib|3 months ago
But even more, why a small employee in his right mind would make himself replaceable for the good of the company...
seec|3 months ago
The hilarious part is that clearly his approach doesn't work very well, since he admitted not getting a promotion.
Unless you are getting paid for it and it's part of the job description, I don't see why one would want to document his own process to get stuff done. Like the secret sauce is basically the reason to keep you around, if you give it for free, they can just swap you for a junior that will just have to copy your process. This is already what happens when you decide to leave and they give you someone to "train".
I know this type of person, because I used to be one. They have a very naive, idealistic view on the world and feel like they have to serve others before them even though basically everyone does the reverse (especially companies) and they feel shame or guilt if they would put themselves first.
The reality is that it is the only way that things work out for you in the long term, because nobody else than yourself is going to think about your interests first.
Having leverage to negotiate your position inside a company is basically a necessity, and it's not playing dirty, that's just how things works. If you give the good stuff for free, not only you undersell yourself, but you make everyone else look bad and have to work twice as hard.
The issues he had probably comes from his refusal to play the game with the same rules as everyone else, or even inability to see that there is a game in the first place.
xdfgh1112|3 months ago
radley|3 months ago
andreacanton|3 months ago
yes, english is not my first language, so I use AI to helping me structure the article, but I've edited and fully reviewed and take responsibility for every word in it. (Anyway I will trust less AI next time, so thank you)
What I was trying to say is that if you do less because you don't like where you work, you are losing opportunity to learn skills, or worst: you are learning to do less in general. How can you find a new and better job if you are doing less?
grimblee|3 months ago
stack_framer|3 months ago
I started working toward a promotion to staff engineer at the beginning of 2023. By the end of the year, my manager said I was ready, but he had been asked to step back into an IC role, so he couldn't start my promotion paperwork.
My new manager felt I wasn't ready for promotion, but she claimed I wouldn't have to start over. It felt like starting over though, because it took another year to convince her. During that time I consulted regularly with her and my director of engineering—seeking and taking every possible opportunity to demonstrate that I could operate at the staff level.
My manager then spent six months writing an 18-page promotion packet, highlighting my accomplishments, and outlining why I deserved the promotion. The packet was approved by my director of engineering, so they both felt I was ready. It was then presented to an anonymous promotion committee, which ultimately makes the promotion decision.
Despite two and a half years of effort, the committee rejected my promotion. They even provided a list of 12 bullet points where they felt I was coming up short.
I gave up trying for the promotion, for my mental health. Sheesh.
caminante|3 months ago
I'm sorry you got such a mixed signal from your engineering tree and the promotion committee. Need to do more research on that promotion committee. This sounds like the committee nightmare that many PhD candidates face.
einsteinx2|3 months ago
I’ll never understand why companies as an almost universal rule make it as difficult as possible to get promoted or get a raise but will hire less qualified outsiders for those positions at higher pay without blinking an eye.
BinaryIgor|3 months ago
"I’ll work like I might stay forever, and like I might leave tomorrow"
Besides practical benefits of this approach mentioned in the article, it's the attitude that brings you closer to stoicism that just makes your whole life, not only professional one, better.
OutOfHere|3 months ago
black_13|3 months ago
[deleted]
Ecstatify|3 months ago
I was expecting something more practical, like doing an interview every six months or something along those lines.
Supervisors and HR just smile and nod.
Maybe if he had a better relationship with his manager, he would’ve realised sooner that he was just wasting his time.
Documentation is like an untested disaster recovery plan.
When a major issue happens, you’ll be the one called.
You should delegate or automate the task and remove it from your workload, especially if it carries high risk.
I’d actually love to read the dark arts equivalent of this article.
neilv|3 months ago
Incidentally, I hear advice like that (especially a variation, of "practice" interviews) on HN, but I really wish people wouldn't do that.
Actually, please don't do this resource burning with startups or other SMBs, unless it's clear they want to burn resources.
But feel free to burn the resources of FAANGs, who mostly created the idea that interviews should be a series of performance rituals that you have to practice and refresh on.
(Though the related phenomenon, of techbro frequent job-hopping, wasn't the fault of FAANGs. It seemed to start during the dotcom boom, pre-Google, especially in the Bay Area, AFAICT, where a lot of people were chasing the most promising rapid IPO. At the time, the rumors/grumbling I was hearing from the Bay Area made me want to do a startup in Cambridge/Boston instead, just to avoid that culture. After the dotcom IPO gold rush ended, it seemed that job-hopping for big pay boosts and promotions became a thing, and that job-hopping culture never went away. But I don't think we'll find much team loyalty anywhere anymore, not from companies nor from colleagues, so that's no longer a reason I'd avoid the Bay Area specifically.)
bayarearefugee|3 months ago
I can't help but think the real take away is that you should trust your gut and quit a lot sooner and the poster basically wasted a year being jerked around.
If you are telling your employer you are unhappy for a whole year and they don't fix the conditions leading to your unhappiness, they are telling you they don't value you enough to make those changes (for the sake of simplicity, I'll just assume the employee's specific points of dissatisfaction were reasonable fixes and not ridiculous asks).
You don't owe them a year of soft landing when you quit, in the vast majority of cases they wouldn't have given you anywhere near that if they let you go.
adt|3 months ago
andreacanton|3 months ago
English is not my first language so I trusted AI for my article.
I will study better this behavior
Refreeze5224|3 months ago
georgemcbay|3 months ago
The actual contents are almost the opposite, the blog poster stayed around in their role for an entire year while letting their employer know they were unhappy.
I'm all for professionalism when leaving a job. For any full-time position I've held I've always followed the 2 week notice standard as a minimum and have even done part-time work past the 2 week period in a couple of special cases where I understood the burden on the company I was leaving was more than a 2 week transition could handle.
... but I don't see how it counts as being ready to quit at any time if that quitting is the result of the company not being able to fix a job situation you've told them isn't working out for you over the course of an entire year.
rufus_foreman|3 months ago
Yes, you will need to pay for the coverage that the employer was paying for, but that's not "eliminate your healthcare coverage at the drop of a hat with no remorse".
weinzierl|3 months ago
Big yes
"For a year before leaving, I talked openly with my supervisor and HR about my dissatisfaction"
Big, big, big no. Might have worked for OP this time but in general this will backfire drastically. In many European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee.
outworlder|3 months ago
To be able to have (again, mostly) honest conversations with a boss or HR is a privilege. In 99% of the cases, HR is there to protect the company, there were only a handful of HR employees that went above and beyond. And even then, you had to make sure not to use some triggering words. I mean this in the literal sense, there are a few things that, if you say, that triggers an automatic HR response, regardless of who you are talking to. Hinting of leaving, even with an unspecified timeframe, is one of them.
In general, don't do this.
Also, exit interviews cannot benefit you. Decline.
grumbelbart|3 months ago
Huh, where?
ahtihn|3 months ago
Which countries specifically?
bartvk|3 months ago
alpineidyll3|3 months ago
- Before being ready to leave, make sure you either have, or will have, another opportunity or no need for an employer. VERY often (especially in tech!) employers/managers will have employees, not for their labor, but for vanity, to build a pyramid to themselves, or for image reasons. Such people will immediately send you packing for complaining about non-productivity. Your perception of your superior's alignment can easily be wrong.
Given that precondition... I agree with the premise.
andreacanton|3 months ago
Yes, I have done it 10 years ago: I've left a job because of burnout without another opportunity. After that, I've panicked for 6 months without a job. Never again: I promised myself to never leave a job if I was without energy.
unknown|3 months ago
[deleted]
more_corn|3 months ago
iku|3 months ago
idiotsecant|3 months ago
theoreticalmal|3 months ago
TwoNineFive|3 months ago
With self-serving advertblogs like this, I always imagine that Simpsons episode where Bart has a pot on his head and is banging two pans together, yelling "I AM SO GREAT, I AM SO GREAT, EVERYBODY LOVES ME, I AM SO GREAT!" lol
andreacanton|3 months ago
sfpotter|3 months ago
[deleted]
onraglanroad|3 months ago
@dang these complaints about AI are more tedious than any other complaints about the website. Might be time to add something to the "guidelines".
xdfgh1112|3 months ago
sph|3 months ago
OutOfHere|3 months ago