[domenicd]

A lot of people in the comments are expressing curiosity about "ideal" amounts of exercise to avoid these sorts of problems.

I have a real-life friend whose hobby is studying this stuff. His recommendations boil down to:

- 1/week 20 minutes HIIT: 5 minutes warmup, 3x(2 minutes high intensity + 3 minutes low intensity) blocks.

- 1/week strength training focused on large muscle groups.

- 12,000 steps per day walking (HIIT excluded).

According to his reading of the literature, this gives you the best bang for your buck in terms of all-cause mortality avoidance. Most of the studies in this area are correlational, not randomized controlled trials, so it's hard to be sure. But I can vouch for his diligence in trying to get to the bottom of this. I've been following his program since January with reasonably good results over my already-active baseline.

His website is https://www.unaging.com/, and honestly it's a bit hard to recommend because he's definitely playing the SEO game: the articles are often repetitive of each other and full of filler. And the CMS seems janky. (I would tell you to find his older articles before he started optimizing for SEO, but, it seems like the CMS reset all article dates to today.) But, if you have patience, it might be worthwhile.

[dooglius]

Isn't 12k steps like 6 miles? I could plausibly jog that much, but to walk it every day seems like a huge time commitment.

[tom_alexander]

Wikipedia puts the "preferred walking speed" around 3 miles per hour, so that would be 2 hours of walking per day. So with 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work, 2 hours of walking, 1 hour of hygiene, 1 hour of commuting, and 2 hours for meals, you'd still be left with 2 hours of personal time to do all your extracurriculars like cleaning, parenting, spousing, hobbying, shopping, repairing things, etc.

[strken]

I get about 6000 daily steps from my commute[0] plus about 2000 from miscellaneous movement around the house and office. The extra 4000 are pretty easy to fill in with a lunchtime walk and some housework.

I don't think most people are going out and just walking for an hour and a half every day. A couple I know like to go for a walk with their morning coffees, for example. They've added walking into something they'd be doing anyway. Other people own a dog, or take their kid to the park each day, or do some other regular activity which integrates walking.

[0] 3000 each way, which is 2km and takes me about 20 minutes at a moderate-to-fast walking pace.

[domenicd]

12k steps is about 2 hours. It helps a lot to have a walking pad (basically a mini-treadmill), and possibly standing desk.

I do 45 minutes of Anki per day on the walking pad, and then if walking around the city hasn't gotten the other 1.25 hours, I can fill the rest with watching TV on the walking pad.

[justinator]

You'll miss walking when your older and your bones turn to dust.

I'd honestly walk as much as you can.

Rust never sleeps.

[d_silin]

Easy when you don't have a car. I average this much daily for the past 30 years.

[YZF]

You can get 3k-4k steps easily just by moving a bit more during your day. The other 8k can be done in an hour walk. You can jog as well if you're short on time but it's probably nice to spend an hour outside every day anyways?

[hn_throw2025]

[Loads up Fitbit] Yesterday, I did 15,686 steps which it reports as 6.5 miles. I always aim to get above 10K.

Due to an illness I currently have digestive problems, so I walk (stroll, rather) after eating as it provides relief.

I allow an hour after breakfast and also after the evening meal to do somewhere between 3K and 5K steps. This is at home. It’s not tedious as I listen to podcasts, audiobooks, talk radio, or music. As someone else mentioned, if you do it on a walking pad you could watch video. The rest of the steps stack up naturally as you go about your daily business.

[kjkjadksj]

Your body evolved to walk double that a day foraging and persistent hunting.

[GrzegorzWidla]

Then jog that much in zone 2. I’ve done exactly that, replaced 10K steps a day with < 30 mins jogs if I can’t hit the target for any reason (I work from home so it happens quite often unless I’m mindful about moving).

[inopinatus]

“Ideal” outcome here is likely a lot more time investment than the 95%ile-effectiveness “good enough” outcome; and in any case, an effective exercise prescription is as personally specific - perhaps even more so - than many pharmaceutical ones, to account for physiology, morphology, age et cetera.

For example my knees are too old for shuttle runs or whatever the intended HIIT might otherwise be, but I can happily go do 500W hill efforts on the bike.

[sublinear]

The walking is the only true daily exercise commitment here, and 10k steps is a classic goal. Close enough for me would be reinterpreting this as "walk about an hour a day".

Otherwise, I think once-a-week HIIT and once-a-week strength training sounds very reasonable and easy to maintain for just about anyone.

[John23832]

Then jog it? That's not a negative.

[nine_k]

Combine it with other commitments: walk the dog, do small-scale shopping (walk to the store and back), have a lunch break in a few minutes of walk from your office, etc.

This is, of course, most easily done in a proper walkable city. Elsewhere biking around could work, probably.

[lurking_swe]

this is why i love walkable cities! You don’t need to “schedule” time every week to meet basic fitness goals. You just walk to the subway, bus stop, etc. Walk to lunch. Walk to the park, Walk to buy groceries, etc.

For those living in suburbs, I hear dogs can be a good excuse to walk more. :)

[tasuki]

My commute is a little less than that. It's certainly a better time investment than being stuck in traffic...

[chaostheory]

Use a walking treadmill for your desk. Life changer

[lumost]

It's typical/not difficult in major metro's - I do about 8-10k steps per day if I commute to and from my office without any lunch walks etc. Do any lunch/dinner/evening activity and you'll go over 12k.

I don't know how to replicate this in a car centric environment.

[dachris]

The manual for a human body says several hours of exercise per day.

Children try to follow it, but it's being made hard for them, and by the time you're an adult most have learned to forget the natural instincts for movement and how much fun you can have doing physical exercise.

[lucyjojo]

never understood the physical exercise is fun thing.

i do it but it's just pure pain. i guess people are wired differently.

[wotmatetherow]

There's no such thing as "ideal". From what I understand from the research, more fitness is correlated with better health outcomes, even up to advanced to elite level. I recommend trying out a number of different exercise modalities and schedules and seeing what you enjoy, what makes you feel the best, and what fits into your life.

[rzk]

Here is a study that tries to answer that question: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-024-02120-2

A good summary: https://bannister.coach/mitochondria-and-exercise-how-differ...

Quoting the conclusion:

> In this systematic review and meta-regression covering ~ 50 years of research data, we demonstrate that the magnitude of change in mitochondrial content, capillarization, and VO2 max to exercise training is largely determined by the initial fitness level. The ability to adapt to exercise training is maintained throughout life irrespective of sex and presence of disease. Larger training volumes (higher training frequency per week and larger number of training weeks) and higher training intensities (per hour of training, SIT > HIT > ET) are associated with greater increases in mitochondrial content and VO2 max. Therefore, training load (volume x intensity) is a robust predictor of changes in mitochondrial content and VO2 max. Increases in capillarization occur primarily in the early stages of exercise training (< 4 weeks) with ET, HIT, and SIT equally enhancing capillaries per fiber, while ET is more effective in increasing capillary density (capillaries per mm²) due to less pronounced muscle fiber hypertrophy.

[generalenvelope]

The 2019 physical activity guidelines for Americans include consensus recommendations including the evidence and some good graphs to visualize the "bang for buck"

For those curious, those (weekly) recommendations are: twice weekly resistance training, and 150-300min moderate intensity aerobic activity, or 75-150min vigorous aerobic activity.

If you want a program to just give you a starting point, I highly recommend Barbell Medicine's (free) "Beginner Prescription"

[Blackthorn]

People must have very different definitions of HIIT because there's no way someone is sustaining a 2 minute absolute max-effort sprint.

[cvwright]

Usually in this context it means “the max effort that you can sustain for 2 minutes”.

Same thing goes for a 20-minute max effort or even an hour etc.

[domenicd]

I just aim for zone 5. Usually it takes 45-60 seconds to get into zone 5, then I spend the remaining 60-75 seconds there.

[pols45]

> so its hard to be sure

Who is asking you to be sure in the first place? Why do you need this certainty? Farm animals need the comfort and stability of the farm to survive. They "flourish" within the parameters some one else sets.

In the Elephant-Rider model of how the mind works, people are talking to rider And the elephant.

The elephant just needs some feel good stuff, to momentarily focus shift away from all the unpredictability in the universe, it has no control over - in this case it is being fed - well the story teller who is not sure about anything is atleast "diligent".

When you let go of the story, and realize the elephant is not under your control and can never be, the ride is much smoother. And that's the only story, no SEO game needed to promote the Truth. And truth is - you are just along for the ride. Don't act like a farm animal thinking you are healthy based on how many eggs you have been told to lay. You are a chimp. All animal domestication protocols break down sooner or later when dealing with chimps. Cuz the chimp mind has an elephant in it. Taking it for a wild ride.

[UniverseHacker]

The separate HIIT is probably not necessary if you vary your weight training to include higher volume sets. If you do a true HIIT sprint set at 100 percent effort like the initial journal article, you will be wiped out the rest of the day, it’s not practical.

[kmeisthax]

Playing 12s on maimai DX makes my arms sore. Is that HIIT? :P

[lofaszvanitt]

12000 steps is around 10km. And takes around 2-2.5 hours of walking. So I say it is total baloney. Only very few people can do that amount of walking daily. Plus after you do a 2+ hour walk your body next day needs time to recuperate. As an added note it could be utterly boring to walk the same route again and again.

Rather do 6 km slow running 2 or 3 times a week (of course if you are not severely overweight). You can do that in one hour and one running session is enough for 2-3 days. It also strenghtens your core and every other muscle in your body. You will also eat less. If you can mix it with strength training that includes your 4 headed leg muscles you will feel yourself like a champ.

Lot of literature is absolute hogwash in this space because most of them is theoretical and they regurgitate the same old bs. Like idiots saying running half an hour is 400 kcal :D.

Your body is a system, and not a robot or an engine that needs x amount of gas and oil to go for y kilometers.

[lurking_swe]

It’s not 2 hours of walking nonstop. Walking to the toilet counts. So does walking to the bus, the grocery store, to lunch, etc.

I think it’s doable if you live in a very walkable city. I routinely hit about 11k steps most days of the week. Some days less of course…like if i’m sore from a workout or just feeling sedentary.

[kace91]

Anaerobic training’s returns increase ridiculously with days/week until about 3 and it’s large diminishing returns after that.

Just saying, once you’re willing to lift weights once a week with all the upfront cost (gym membership, leaving your comfort zone, learning the ropes, etc) it’s a really good bang for your buck adding one or two more.

[domenicd]

For sure. My friend's program is longevity-focused, not strength focused.

I usually do 2/week strength training + 1/week bouldering, but have dropped to 1/week strength training + 1/week bouldering while I worked to incorporate the 12k steps into my routine. I'm also currently doing a cut so am less motivated to lift. After I hit 10% body fat I plan to start bulking and go back to 2/week + bouldering or maybe even 3/week + bouldering.

Regarding diminishing returns, at least for longevity,

> Training once or twice a week for less than an hour can reduce the chance of death from any cause by 35%. But, if the time is increased to over an hour in a week or more than three sessions, then the longevity benefit disappears to zero compared with people who never put their hands on a weight.

from https://www.unaging.com/exercise/weight-lifting-for-life/ which cites https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7385554/ . Pretty interesting.

[justinator]

I love when exercise is hyper-optimized as possible so I can back to what's most important: working at a job I actually hate to make as much money as possible -- the real source of my happiness.

[makk]

Unlikely that working a job leads to making as much money as possible.

[burnt-resistor]

Walking 2 hours per day is a completely impractical fantasy.

A better resource: Body By Science a book containing recommendations based on research and data. The overall goal is proper volume of effective effort of cardio and strength exercise that doesn't take too long and reduces risks of wear/tear and injury.

[lm28469]

> Walking 2 hours per day is a completely impractical fantasy.

Tell people you spend 12 hours a day starring at a screen and they won't bat an eye, tell them you walk 10k step a day and they'll try to convince your it's unpractical, unhealthy, "10k is a made up number anyways", "I don't have time", "isn't it too hard?"

[domenicd]

My friend's main study that he cites is https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S209525462... . The interesting thing is that there is no real cutoff. The benefit kind of tapers off logarithmically, but all-cause mortality just gets lower and lower the more steps/day you take. So his 12k is somewhat arbitrary.

[rootusrootus]

> Also, I've found that suggesting 30 minutes of walking vs ??? minutes of walking to get 10k steps is easier for most people to fold into their schedule

And 10K steps is a good bit more walking than 30 minutes. IMO the 10K number might be halfway useful as a high level metric for people who are just judging their own activity throughout a day. As you've pointed out, if you are going for a brisk walk, you don't need 10K steps to get value from it.