Indeed, my understanding (which is backed up by your link) is that the hieroglyphs aren't just pictograms that try to draw the meaning but they tend to have particular pronunciations, and the selection of glyphs will usually depend on both the sound and the meaning of the word.
I guess Chinese characters work similarly, where eg, each character has a particular sound in Mandarin (with some characters having the same sound), but you spell words using certain characters based on the (sometimes historical) semantic association of components (radicals) within each character.
I'll admit I'm not an expert in either system, so sorry if either description seems like an oversimplification (I'm pretty sure there are exceptions in both cases).
This also leads to one of my favourite tables on Wikipedia [0], showing correspondences between various scripts, including Egyptian hieroglyphs and Arabic/Hebrew. Not all hieroglyphs are included, but you can see that each letter in Arabic/Hebrew ultimately derives from some hieroglyph which would have had a similar sound. The name of the Arabic letter ع sounds the same as the Arabic word for "eye" (ʿayn, عين) and the corresponding hieroglyph also looks like an eye.
(I'm not an egyptologist.) The Thesaurus Linguae Aegyptiae has a breakdown of 𓅓𓂋𓄋𓏏𓏝𓊹𓊵𓏏𓅓𓇾𓂋𓇦𓂋𓆑 / jm.j-rʾ-wpw.wt-ḥtp.w-nṯr-m-tꜣ-r-ḏr=f / "overseer of apportionments of the god's offering(s) in the entire land" https://tla.digital/lemma/850281 with 𓇾 / tꜣ / "land" and 𓂋𓇥𓂋 / r-ḏr / "entire".
So we have most of 𓇍𓇋𓏭𓂻𓍘𓇋𓇾𓂋𓇥𓂋𓈐𓆑 / jy.tj-tꜣ-r-ḏr-?? / "welcome land entire ??" except for the 𓈐𓆑 at the end where I have no idea whether it's phonetic ḥr=f or a determinative https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%93%88%90 or something else.
The goal of an HELLO WORLD is not to show it's printed, but the process of what everything is need to print HELLO WORLD. Every step, and every word and concept needs to be explained.
Therefore this article is not a proper HELLO WORLD exemple.
A bit of a digression: the article has the hieroglyphics presented as pictures, not as Unicode, even though Unicode has the entire(?) hieroglyph block already. After some digging, I found that this was because there aren't many (or any) popular fonts which implement the proper combinations of glyphs.
(While Unicode has combining diacritics, this isn't sufficient to e.g. stack the glyphs as shown in the article.)
However, it turns out that Microsoft has developed a tool that can modify an existing font to allow this, representing the hieroglyphyics properly. I've written a brief tutorial that shows how to actually use it:
A nitpick sixteen years too late: the idea behind five-digit years isn't bad, but there's no reason for time deltas to adhere to this rule! 5000 years ago, not 05000 years ago.
doesn't the same argument apply to ordinal dates? i see some people on hn also using longnow-style five-digit years, but i really can't see the point.
did the crossing of the rhine take place in 00406, 0406, or 406? what extra information do the two former styles convey?
also, what about the year 100000?
we are somehow doing just fine without leading zeroes for other quantities.
there is an argument to be made about e.g. iso8601 datetime formats that need to be lexicographically sortable; but i don't see any of the longnow fans using anything like those.
For what it's worth, I'm interested. So far I've just bought a couple books on Middle Egyptian and read a basic intro that my library had, but between all the languages I'm already learning, couldn't really justify putting in the time.
A study group or study partner would probably be enough extra motivation to get basic proficiency at the least. So if you're willing let me know if you find/wish to create something.
What surprised me most is that there isn't a ton of publicly available information on translating ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics that would make this reasonably easy, or even a website that would allow one to enter an English phrase and get back the hieroglyphic equivalent.
As far as I can tell this is a transliterator, not a translator. It's just turning latin letters into hieroglyphs as you type them. I don't know how accurate the transliteration is.
It would be like coming up with a sequence of Chinese characters that sounds like an English sentence when pronounced by a Mandarin speaker. Nothing really to do with translation.
Representing the alphabetic orthography for Hello World is obviously impossible in a written script lacking letters, revealing the folly implicit in the exercise.
probably_wrong|3 months ago
I found this article [1] for how the word "Welcome" is constructed, but how to understand the rest is beyond me.
[1] https://www.ancientegyptblog.com/?p=1458
maxdamantus|3 months ago
I guess Chinese characters work similarly, where eg, each character has a particular sound in Mandarin (with some characters having the same sound), but you spell words using certain characters based on the (sometimes historical) semantic association of components (radicals) within each character.
I'll admit I'm not an expert in either system, so sorry if either description seems like an oversimplification (I'm pretty sure there are exceptions in both cases).
This also leads to one of my favourite tables on Wikipedia [0], showing correspondences between various scripts, including Egyptian hieroglyphs and Arabic/Hebrew. Not all hieroglyphs are included, but you can see that each letter in Arabic/Hebrew ultimately derives from some hieroglyph which would have had a similar sound. The name of the Arabic letter ع sounds the same as the Arabic word for "eye" (ʿayn, عين) and the corresponding hieroglyph also looks like an eye.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet#Table_of_l...
yorwba|3 months ago
So we have most of 𓇍𓇋𓏭𓂻𓍘𓇋𓇾𓂋𓇥𓂋𓈐𓆑 / jy.tj-tꜣ-r-ḏr-?? / "welcome land entire ??" except for the 𓈐𓆑 at the end where I have no idea whether it's phonetic ḥr=f or a determinative https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%93%88%90 or something else.
yohannparis|3 months ago
The goal of an HELLO WORLD is not to show it's printed, but the process of what everything is need to print HELLO WORLD. Every step, and every word and concept needs to be explained.
Therefore this article is not a proper HELLO WORLD exemple.
__mharrison__|3 months ago
zOneLetter|3 months ago
marzchipane|3 months ago
(While Unicode has combining diacritics, this isn't sufficient to e.g. stack the glyphs as shown in the article.)
However, it turns out that Microsoft has developed a tool that can modify an existing font to allow this, representing the hieroglyphyics properly. I've written a brief tutorial that shows how to actually use it:
https://marzchipane.com/notes%20and%20essays/interesting_uni...
(You may need to press Shift+F5 to reload fully if they don't show properly)
EDIT: hieroglyphs, not hieroglyphics
wdrw|3 months ago
Igrom|3 months ago
5-|3 months ago
did the crossing of the rhine take place in 00406, 0406, or 406? what extra information do the two former styles convey?
also, what about the year 100000?
we are somehow doing just fine without leading zeroes for other quantities.
there is an argument to be made about e.g. iso8601 datetime formats that need to be lexicographically sortable; but i don't see any of the longnow fans using anything like those.
lolc|3 months ago
Edit: To see the sequence you can paste "" into the corpus search at https://center-for-decipherment.ch/tool/#script=elam
Razengan|3 months ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwZB0MsXCjQ
They can be pretty complex and a neat form of 2D-positional language!
CamouflagedKiwi|3 months ago
I don't know if that is enough to put me in the intersection of their Venn diagram though.
dekervin|3 months ago
SuperNinKenDo|3 months ago
A study group or study partner would probably be enough extra motivation to get basic proficiency at the least. So if you're willing let me know if you find/wish to create something.
Nuzzerino|3 months ago
thisisauserid|3 months ago
The script is hieroglyphic.
flobosg|3 months ago
kmoser|3 months ago
Oh, wait, there is: https://lingojam.com/HieroglyphicsTranslator except its translation of "Welcome, the entire land" looks very different from the symbols in the article.
unknown|3 months ago
[deleted]
z500|3 months ago
maxdamantus|3 months ago
As far as I can tell this is a transliterator, not a translator. It's just turning latin letters into hieroglyphs as you type them. I don't know how accurate the transliteration is.
It would be like coming up with a sequence of Chinese characters that sounds like an English sentence when pronounced by a Mandarin speaker. Nothing really to do with translation.
unknown|3 months ago
[deleted]
quinndupont|3 months ago