"It stings the person WAY more than the company. ... I encourage everyone to get fired once so they know that feeling. It’s unbelievable and something to definitely learn from."
^THIS. THANK YOU, SIR. In my case, it wasn't the sudden lack of a job that stung, it was the experience of being completely blacklisted by everyone at the company. That was 20 close friends who I never heard from again.
If they were "close friends", they're not going to drop you just because you got canned. Good people get fired all the time. It's about as unremarkable as a bad rainstorm. Shit... another one of these.
Most companies are shitty and most people know most companies are shitty and aren't going to ostracize someone just because their employer fired that person.
You are best off if you have an offline form of contact. Don't expect them to let the company know that you're still in contact with them, because that's not a fair expectation (they could be endangering their own reputations) but they'll usually be in contact with you offline.
dude, I would say at least the takeaway from the whole episode was "Personal Life should always have higher priority than work". Your employer can be replaced, your personal life can't.
Every time i read such posts,i become more confident that is harder to be an employee trying to figure out what a boss(or his/her company) needs than to just start your own business and let the market decide.
Yep - having to guess at your boss's needs is like the worst of both worlds. Either have a boss that provides meaningful structure, communication, and leadership or work for yourself.
I think he counting his loss at $100 million is not realistic. I am assuming he calculated this number by the amount of equity he would have vested after Facebook IPO. To cash that amount he probably would have had to keep working till now. And if you are an entrepreneur type its a tall order. He should get rid of this feeling of loss of $100 million which was really nothing more than a promise.
I would say it's a sign of allowing emotions to enter the equation, the liability being not to the company, but to the person ascribing liability's plans or personal compensation.
When Noah says, "everyone is replaceable", he really means it.
Yesterday, he fired half of AppSumo, despite the company is profitable and growing.
Here is Noah's m.o. with AppSumo:
1) Attract and hire people by paying them above market salary and promising equity.
2) New employees grow the company by building systems, automating inefficient processes, creating new lines of business, etc.
3) Once systems are built and operating efficiently; fire staff before equity vests.
4) Rinse, repeat, wash.
Entrepreneurs like this give startups a bad name. It's sad to see so many people celebrate him as a startup role model.
The reason he was fired from Facebook because he leaked internal features to the press and blogged about them. Yet he still seems unapologetic "I don’t think what I did was that wrong since the marketing team did not do anything to promote our new features."
Could it be that he got fired from Facebook for the same reason as well? For founders, this seems like an easy way to guard themselves against dilution.
Nobody is perfect. Be it life or work, we all do mistakes. It is easy to disillusion ourselves or justify ourselves, that others were right. In this occasion, it is probably easy for Noah to relate to few things that didn't go well and assume them as reasons for getting fired.
If Mark Zuckerberg used this tactic so that he could have more value for his stocks at the end of the day, then it is quite a disgusting one. I have great respect for Mark. I hope it is not true.
If so many people were fired, then clearly there was a problem with hiring the right people.
I seriously doubt this is the reason. Doesn't Noah own like 80-90% of that business, and any one superstar employee is maybe looking at 1% or less in equity.
So you're saying Noah would burn people to pick up rounding-error-level equity? I don't buy it.
There may be other untoward reasons for firing people, but hoarding equity is not one of them. More likely he realized the people he hired don't operate at the level he wanted or he decided he can't afford their above market salary. Salary is a FAR more likely reason, especially because AppSumo is so capital efficient.
> Yesterday, he fired half of AppSumo, despite the company is profitable and growing.
What's the real story here? Your comment comes off more like a bitter ex-employee than someone who's qualified to judge Noah's moral compass from a blog post and anonymous rumor about AppSumo.
The entire story about a startup is about money. I hear people saying stuff like "I add value by creating something wonderful", but I consider that a truckload of horseshit. It is always about money and firing people just before equity vesting bolsters that idea.
This is the precise reason I work as an independent contractor for companies and explicitly make an effort not to get into an employment.
I worked for a VERY large Internet company in the late '90s, and I can say with complete conviction that the VAST majority of terminations were politically motivated.
Several times I was provided a list of my team members that needed to go, and when I asked "why this guy?" or "why her?", the answer was never performance related. A few times I was able to argue the team member to safety, but most of the time it was already a forgone conclusion.
Each faction would come into and out of favor with upper management as the rounds of layoffs came and went, and the business priorities changed. Enemies of that faction were always targeted, irrespective of the cost to the business of the loss of that talent.
The way I avoided all this WITHOUT choosing a side was to quietly make myself invaluable to the upper management as the key "goto guy" for skunkwerk projects, to always accept technical due-diligence projects on upcoming acquisitions, and keep showing "projects I'm working on in my spare time" to the uppers.
Getting fired is not that big a deal. Employers do everything in their power to make it a big deal. But the truth is, Developers (the good ones) are in such high demand, that it grates employers to no end, we are a liability to be needed so much, so they use psychological tricks to get us to act like begging dogs. To be thankful just to have a job. It's not the case, we have all the cards, if we just open our eyes.
They need you more than you need them. If you are not happy at your job, GTFO, you'll find another in no time and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
Getting fired itself is not a big deal because companies rarely give bad references. A bad reference not only makes a defamation suit a slam-dunk, but it puts them at a severe disadvantage in a he-said/she-said termination suit, and those can run into the millions.
Being unemployed in a down market (regardless of the kind of termination) is bad, and short job tenures become damaging after a while. Also, if there isn't a severance package, it can hit you financially. 2-4 months without a salary is a pretty serious cost.
So I'd generally agree with what you are saying-- the probability that getting fired will seriously fuck up your life is low-- but being fired is still best avoided.
OP is an idiot. Not only is he airing his dirty laundry in a way that makes him look extremely bad (saying he was fired because he was "selfish" and "zoned the F out"?) but he left so much on the table (and with his admissions, it's gone forever).
Large companies have deep pockets and don't want information to get out. He couldn't have gotten $100 million out of this, but at the time, he could have definitely had the cliff voided (which would have been enough to get him comfortable)... but now it's far past too late. If nothing else, he could have let the cash and stock go and settled on a glowing reference from Zuck himself-- which would have made his career. There are so many ways he could have turned this to his career benefit.
[+] [-] jneen|13 years ago|reply
^THIS. THANK YOU, SIR. In my case, it wasn't the sudden lack of a job that stung, it was the experience of being completely blacklisted by everyone at the company. That was 20 close friends who I never heard from again.
[+] [-] just_observing|13 years ago|reply
They were not close friends then.
[+] [-] MartinCron|13 years ago|reply
I have learned to pour a little less of my soul into work, to guard against this happening again.
[+] [-] michaelochurch|13 years ago|reply
Most companies are shitty and most people know most companies are shitty and aren't going to ostracize someone just because their employer fired that person.
You are best off if you have an offline form of contact. Don't expect them to let the company know that you're still in contact with them, because that's not a fair expectation (they could be endangering their own reputations) but they'll usually be in contact with you offline.
[+] [-] throwaway503|13 years ago|reply
Even I learnt it the hard way :)
[+] [-] ekm2|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eavc|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] subhro|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 31reasons|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jgrahamc|13 years ago|reply
Yep, he gave this guy Strunk and White and spelt grammar incorrectly.
[+] [-] bennesvig|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gruseom|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smarx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devilshaircut|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] poopicus|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lacksconfidence|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mattdeboard|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhizome|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jongold|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] safetyscissors|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abibibo|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway404|13 years ago|reply
Yesterday, he fired half of AppSumo, despite the company is profitable and growing.
Here is Noah's m.o. with AppSumo:
1) Attract and hire people by paying them above market salary and promising equity.
2) New employees grow the company by building systems, automating inefficient processes, creating new lines of business, etc.
3) Once systems are built and operating efficiently; fire staff before equity vests.
4) Rinse, repeat, wash.
Entrepreneurs like this give startups a bad name. It's sad to see so many people celebrate him as a startup role model.
The reason he was fired from Facebook because he leaked internal features to the press and blogged about them. Yet he still seems unapologetic "I don’t think what I did was that wrong since the marketing team did not do anything to promote our new features."
Clearly this guy's moral compass points south.
[+] [-] pherk|13 years ago|reply
Nobody is perfect. Be it life or work, we all do mistakes. It is easy to disillusion ourselves or justify ourselves, that others were right. In this occasion, it is probably easy for Noah to relate to few things that didn't go well and assume them as reasons for getting fired.
If Mark Zuckerberg used this tactic so that he could have more value for his stocks at the end of the day, then it is quite a disgusting one. I have great respect for Mark. I hope it is not true.
If so many people were fired, then clearly there was a problem with hiring the right people.
[+] [-] a5seo|13 years ago|reply
I seriously doubt this is the reason. Doesn't Noah own like 80-90% of that business, and any one superstar employee is maybe looking at 1% or less in equity.
So you're saying Noah would burn people to pick up rounding-error-level equity? I don't buy it.
There may be other untoward reasons for firing people, but hoarding equity is not one of them. More likely he realized the people he hired don't operate at the level he wanted or he decided he can't afford their above market salary. Salary is a FAR more likely reason, especially because AppSumo is so capital efficient.
[+] [-] kareemm|13 years ago|reply
What's the real story here? Your comment comes off more like a bitter ex-employee than someone who's qualified to judge Noah's moral compass from a blog post and anonymous rumor about AppSumo.
Disclosure: I count Noah as a good friend.
[+] [-] theorique|13 years ago|reply
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
[+] [-] throwaway503|13 years ago|reply
This is the precise reason I work as an independent contractor for companies and explicitly make an effort not to get into an employment.
[+] [-] PythonDeveloper|13 years ago|reply
Several times I was provided a list of my team members that needed to go, and when I asked "why this guy?" or "why her?", the answer was never performance related. A few times I was able to argue the team member to safety, but most of the time it was already a forgone conclusion.
Each faction would come into and out of favor with upper management as the rounds of layoffs came and went, and the business priorities changed. Enemies of that faction were always targeted, irrespective of the cost to the business of the loss of that talent.
The way I avoided all this WITHOUT choosing a side was to quietly make myself invaluable to the upper management as the key "goto guy" for skunkwerk projects, to always accept technical due-diligence projects on upcoming acquisitions, and keep showing "projects I'm working on in my spare time" to the uppers.
[+] [-] _k|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maeon3|13 years ago|reply
http://thisdeveloperslife.com/
Getting fired is not that big a deal. Employers do everything in their power to make it a big deal. But the truth is, Developers (the good ones) are in such high demand, that it grates employers to no end, we are a liability to be needed so much, so they use psychological tricks to get us to act like begging dogs. To be thankful just to have a job. It's not the case, we have all the cards, if we just open our eyes.
They need you more than you need them. If you are not happy at your job, GTFO, you'll find another in no time and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
[+] [-] michaelochurch|13 years ago|reply
Being unemployed in a down market (regardless of the kind of termination) is bad, and short job tenures become damaging after a while. Also, if there isn't a severance package, it can hit you financially. 2-4 months without a salary is a pretty serious cost.
So I'd generally agree with what you are saying-- the probability that getting fired will seriously fuck up your life is low-- but being fired is still best avoided.
[+] [-] eavc|13 years ago|reply
I'm glad that's true for you, but for most people, it's a pretty traumatic life event. It put the OP into a year-long depression.
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale#Ad...
[+] [-] kalms|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelochurch|13 years ago|reply
Large companies have deep pockets and don't want information to get out. He couldn't have gotten $100 million out of this, but at the time, he could have definitely had the cliff voided (which would have been enough to get him comfortable)... but now it's far past too late. If nothing else, he could have let the cash and stock go and settled on a glowing reference from Zuck himself-- which would have made his career. There are so many ways he could have turned this to his career benefit.
[+] [-] tlrobinson|13 years ago|reply
What exactly are you implying, he should have blackmailed them?
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] throwaway503|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Evbn|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theorique|13 years ago|reply
I'm not sure I get what you mean here. Could you clarify?
[+] [-] StavrosK|13 years ago|reply