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How Tube Amplifiers Work

157 points| gokhan | 3 months ago |robrobinette.com

73 comments

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disruptthelaw|3 months ago

When a webpage loads that looks like it was made in the 90’s, no ads, and is too wide for mobile so I have to drag from side to side, I know the content is gonna be legit.

tomasphan|3 months ago

I got two ads that took up 2/3rds of the screen :(

shermantanktop|3 months ago

I was a tube amp tech for several years, have built multiple guitar amps from scratch, and still dabble in it.

What may not be obvious is that modern tube amp designs are an evolutionary branch from 1930's technology, with only a little coming across from the transistor->digital tech tree. The amps of the 40s and 50s were pretty closely based on reference designs that came from RCA and other tube manufacturers.

Modern passive components (resistors, diodes and caps) are made to a far higher tolerance and are better understood, but tubes and transformers are a mixed bag. The older designs were somewhat overbuilt and can be more reliable or have tonal characteristics that are not available in modern parts.

mickael-kerjean|3 months ago

I always found fascinating the power section of valve amp for guitar will always be made of a very basic rectifier circuit to convert AC to DC that requires a expensive transformer and produce power with a terrible efficiency compared to more modern SMPS. Why is it nobody interested in valve amp never go the SMPS path? Is it all because sag is a desirable sound distortion?

Animats|3 months ago

That's a cute little article.

The key diagram is the one that shows the signal path through the amplifier. Input feeds grid, plate feeds next grid, final output is from plate. Everything else is supporting circuitry.

Note that between each stage there's a capacitor in the signal path. That's to block DC. If you want an amp that amplifies DC, each stage has to run at a higher voltage than the previous stage. The plate must be above the grid in voltage. This was a huge headache in tube computers, both analog and digital.

Transistor circuits don't have the increasing voltage problem. Outputs and inputs are in the same voltage range. That's because transistors are current gain devices, not voltage gain devices.

monocasa|3 months ago

> Note that between each stage there's a capacitor in the signal path. That's to block DC. If you want an amp that amplifies DC, each stage has to run at a higher voltage than the previous stage. The plate must be above the grid in voltage. This was a huge headache in tube computers, both analog and digital.

You can also stick a voltage divider (and probably some diode clamping) in there to pull the signal off of the plate down to a grid compatible voltage for the next stage if you're just doing digital computing. That was the most common setup I've seen in tube based computing. They tended to play pretty nice with the resistors needed for the plate current anyway so it wasn't that much extra RC constant delay.

creer|3 months ago

> The key diagram is the one that shows the signal path [...] Everything else is supporting circuitry.

This is also very misleading in that all this supporting circuitry AND the stuff not even shown, such as wires routing with respect to each other and with respect to the inside or outside of a metal case ALSO contribute. All this stuff contributes to basic functionality ("noise", "hum", etc) and to finer performance (frequency response, dynamic, distortion, crosstalk, etc).

It's easy to confuse the map for the territory, the schematic for the physics of the thing. And common electronics schematics abstract away much that does matter. Engineers and builders with some experience will pay attention to this without bothering to include it in the schematic.

Pay attention when following a magazine article for example: most of the time it will point out the why of several decisions. Why they placed this and that away from each other. Why these wires are routed this way...

formerly_proven|3 months ago

Transistors in principle have the same issue as tubes with bias stacking in that they only operate biased in one way and so the bias potentials necessarily add up (of course we're talking about much smaller voltages, both in absolute terms and in relation to usual supply voltages). But p-type transistors are practical, unlike p-type vacuum tubes. Well, you could build every other tube out of antimatter.

WorkerBee28474|3 months ago

I'd like to plug the YouTube Video by Jim Lill - "Tested: Where Does The Tone Come From In A Guitar Amplifier?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBEOcPtlYk

throwaway17_17|3 months ago

I will second your recommendation and also recommend all of his ‘Tested’ videos. The microphone ‘Tested’ video was also an absolute delight.

The delivery style gets to some people (i.e. “I’m not ___ I just play guitar…”) but i find it absolutely fine.

I moved on from tube amps about 15 years ago and now really enjoy a variety of different solid state amplification stages with varying EQ and ‘dirt’ options at various places. Turns out a lot like were Jim’s Video goes.

Anthony-G|3 months ago

Thanks for that. I hadn’t come across Jim Lill before. For someone who’s “just a performer”, he knows a lot (about circuits). I found the comparisons of different order of Equalisation and Distortion to be interesting and I loved his Tacklebox. I’ll definitely check some of his other videos.

JKCalhoun|3 months ago

Echoes of vacuum tubes in my memories: seeing tube testers in drug stores as a child (thinking they looked like either scientific equipment or else science-fiction props—and accidentally left just feet from the penny-candy), as well as peering into the back of our small B&W TV growing up (and marveling at the "city of light" inside there: all the orange glowing filaments from the tubes…).

And gone by the time I was old enough to be interested in electronics.

Nonetheless, my curiosity about them remained and I did eventually seek out books to understand how they worked. I have since built perhaps a dozen hi-fi stereo and mono-block tube amplifiers—some from kits, some from scratch. I've built a handful of guitar amps as well (even sold some as kits for a bit). Point to point, tagboard, PCBs…

Anyone that likes to tinker in electronics I recommend they try their hand at at least one tube project (probably an amp of some kind).

leptons|3 months ago

>Anyone that likes to tinker in electronics I recommend they try their hand at at least one tube project (probably an amp of some kind).

Only if they are aware of the voltages and current often associated with tube setups. One bad move can be painful, or fatal in some cases.

I used to work on guitar amplifiers, doing modifications on tube amps. Messing around with the internals demanded my focus, a level of attention most "tinkerers" aren't likely ready for. Not trying to gatekeep here, just suggesting it may not be something for "anyone that likes to tinker".

fumeux_fume|3 months ago

Fun vacuum tube history fact: the humble vacuum tube actually traces its origins back to Edison’s incandescent light bulbs. Those early bulbs would mysteriously blacken over time, and for years nobody could figure out why. It wasn’t until 1904 that John Ambrose Fleming connected the dots — the darkening came from metal burned off the filament, and in studying it, he created the first true vacuum tube. So the vacuum tube, the heart of early electronics, was born from the same simple light bulb that first lit our homes.

fsckboy|3 months ago

it's a bit weird that I never thought about it before this, when I already had the facts in my head: the triode tube amplifier was invented by Lee de Forest, but he had no idea how it worked or even what it was capable of. then 45 years later, the solid state transistor amplifier was invented, and they had no idea how it worked either.

for people who have not had much EE education, what is important about triodes and transistors is that they amplify. you can put a signal in (a signal like from a microphone responding to your voice), and put some power in (like from a battery) and these amplifiers can make an output "copy" of the signal which is more powerful/"louder" than the original.

from this basic function, everything that we think of as "electronic" flows. we would still have electric things like light bulbs, heaters, spark plugs, electromagnets, but basically just electric steam punk frankenstein machines, and nothing subtle. Amplifiers are termed "active" electronics; without them, we'd simply have passive electricity.

I didn't read this article because I already know how these things work, and the article looks extremely confusing, and I've already read my fill of explanations that don't explain anything and (not saying this is one of those) I don't want to even risk that again. it is very difficult to find explanations for how transistors work that make any sense at all.

kazinator|3 months ago

> he solid state transistor amplifier was invented, and they had no idea how it worked either.

That cannot possibly be true. Not knowing what exactly is going on with the charge carriers at the subatomic and quantum levels is not the same as not knowing how the amplifier works: like if we fiddle with the voltage at the base, we can influence the collector current, and all the rest.

What is true is that some early transistor designs of audio amps treated transistors like tubes: they featured a phase inverter transistor that fed two non-complementary push-pull stages whose output was combined by a center-tapped output transformer.

The excuse that well-matched complementary PNP transistors were not readily available at that time rings hollow, because it's possible to create an push-pull output stage with just NPN transistors. This is called "quasi complementary" (lots of search results for this).

Output transformers, if they have multiple taps in the secondary winding, do allow for different impedances. If the end users expect to be able to plug a 16 ohm speaker into a 16 ohm output jack and a 4 ohm into 4 ohm, then they will understand that kind of amp better.

yardshop|3 months ago

A complementary resource for learning about tube amps is the YouTube channel Fazio Electric. Colleen Fazio does a nice job of repairing old amps and explaining various aspects of their construction, history, and significance. Plus she has a very calming voice and is probably one of the loveliest amp repair technicians out there.

https://www.youtube.com/@FazioElectric

a_t48|3 months ago

I had a 1971 Marshall tube amp land in my lap, for free. I'm not a guitar player, but wanted to get it fixed it up before either selling it or learning guitar. There's a lot of "magic" there - the amp guy asked if I wanted to swap the tubes for some "more authentic" tubes that were used in England at the time. Pro tip - don't ask the internet for advice for making your tube amp sound nice, you'll get every opinion possible.

smitty1110|3 months ago

Guitar amps are all about getting the right kind of harmonic distortion, so of course the guy had opinions. But tube rolling is madness, avoid it at all costs.

cluckindan|3 months ago

You don’t even need to ask! Generally speaking, you don’t want a guitar amp to sound nice, you want it to sound good, good being a function of many things.

For clean sound, use compatible radio preamp tubes and bias the power tubes conservatively.

For distorted sound, use the lowest overhead preamp tubes you can find, and bias the power tubes as hot as you dare without them breaking within the hour. You can always change them after a gig, or between sets. :-)

kragen|3 months ago

Goodness, I hope you weren't injured.

TrackerFF|3 months ago

Excellent website, I'm an electrical engineer by trade, and play guitar. Back in college tube amps were long, long gone for anything other than microwave engineering.

My first real amp was a JCM800 2203 (technically a JMP "Mk 2 master model", which is just a cascaded JMP/Plexi, which Marshall then later re-released as JCM800 when their export deal expired...but I digress), and when I got into modding this website was my first real encounter with easy explained guides of the circuits.

AdamH12113|3 months ago

Tangential question: Does anyone know of a basic large-signal equation for a triode (or any other vacuum tube type) like the simplified Ebers-Moll equation for BJTs or the square law equations for the linear and saturation regions of a MOSFET? It would really help my understanding, but whenever I google it I only see academic papers, like it's a weird thing to search for.

analog31|3 months ago

"All models are wrong, but some are useful." -- George Box

With that said, a N type JFET is not a bad start. The main rules of thumb work: The grid draws negligible current. The tube will pass enough current from plate to cathode, to maintain a roughly constant cathode voltage above the grid.

creeble|3 months ago

If I understand them correctly, Ebers-Moll equations are based on the exponential relationship between voltage and current in a BJT.

But tubes aren't current amplifiers, they're voltage amplifiers, like FETs.

You can look at the "characteristics curves" of tubes (plate curves and transconductance curves), which tell the story of current against plate-to-cathode voltages for fixed grid voltages.

rerdavies|3 months ago

Vladimirescu, Andrei. The SPICE Book. John Wiley & Sons, 1994.

Gives overview equations for MOSFET device simulations which are probably sufficient for most purposes in Section 3.5, and COMPLETE mathematical descriptions of the SPICE MOSFET implementation in Appendix A.3. Not for the weak.

baylessj|3 months ago

Neat to see a Rob Robinette article pop up here, his website is a fantastic resource for guitar amp work. His articles on Amp Startup and Troubleshooting were particularly helpful when I built a tube amp for the first time. I hadn't heard of using an incandescent bulb as a current limiter in startup before, I was glad to have additional options for trying to make the troubleshooting process a bit safer given the high voltage involved.

dmitrygr|3 months ago

> WARNING: A tube amplifier chassis contains lethal high voltage even when unplugged--sometimes over 700 volts AC and 500 volts DC.

I promise you it does not contain AC when unplugged :)

bogomog|3 months ago

But capacitors may hold high voltage DC, if there's no path to discharge them.

kragen|3 months ago

Nope, probably not at all, and certainly not for very long.

creeble|3 months ago

Rob Robinette is a great guitar-amp resource; knows just about everything about Fender amps in particular. He has many mods to many common/not-so-common Fenders.

Just his list of 5E3 mods (Fender Deluxe) is awesome:

https://robrobinette.com/5e3_Modifications.htm

krbaccord94f|3 months ago

Tube amplifiers function using compression test or where voltage alternates into a unitary current.

A reversal, which occurs in the vaccum chamber compresses electrodes, tagging battery terminal from the +/- amplifier schema AC electricity is transformed.

TomMasz|3 months ago

Tubes are definitely inferior to transistors in a lot of ways, but nothing sounds like them (FETs come close). Plus, there's the comforting glow of those little glass bottles that just seems right.

bogomog|3 months ago

My favorite, kind of ironic, advantage of tubes over transistors is that it's easier to source replacements.

platevoltage|3 months ago

I definitely came across this website back when I was learning how to fix and build tube amps. Glad to see nothing has changed.

redm|3 months ago

This is an interesting topic, but the ads overlaying the content make this very hard to read :(

* Please don't suggest I install an Ad blocker.

kazinator|3 months ago

OK, have your {dad|fifth grader|IT manager} install an ad blocker.

metalman|3 months ago

Ok, I suggest that you install the "Stoutner, privacy browser", which treats seeing text, as the default, with the ability to allow other content as optional, though certain sites that are still hand coded, show, as they always have....adds and all.

quantummagic|3 months ago

Firefox Reader View is really great. Worth giving a try if you use Firefox.

Night_Thastus|3 months ago

Install an Ad blocker. I'd recommend uBlockOrigin on Firefox, or Firefox for mobile.

I mean just in general it makes the web less awful. Webpages are so much easier on the eyes without all the crap they try to stuff in there.

And it can prevent malware, especially for those less tech-inclined.

And it means you use less data/bandwidth, since the blocker prevents the request from ever being made in the first place.

If you want to support a site, just buy a subscription or donate to them or something.

pestatije|3 months ago

id never do it, but you could install an ad blocker

skopje|3 months ago

very good article! i am surprised how such simple circuit was used in the 5f1!