Interesting. When I first read the Picture of Dorian Gray, I had no idea of its social context -- I didn't know Oscar Wilde was gay, I didn't know the book was considered controversial. I just picked it up on a whim and thought it was a well-written book full of fantastically clever dialogue and over-the-top cynicism. But I was, ironically, left with an impression that the Victorian era was more comfortable with male intimacy, and appreciation for male beauty, than our own. That turned out not to be quite true, of course, as demonstrated by what they did to Wilde himself.
> But I was, ironically, left with an impression that the Victorian era was more comfortable with male intimacy, and appreciation for male beauty, than our own.
This might not be an entirely faulty perception. Wilde was, I think, aiming for plausible deniability. To hide the homoeroticism amidst the pretense of merely intense platonic love. Because in that time such expressions were often permissible.
I've seen the theory phrased a few ways but here's one take. In sufficiently homophobic societies, the possibility that a man doing something we would perceive as homoerotic, is himself gay, is close to zero. Because no one would ever risk exposure. And so expression of non-sexual intimacies we would see as gay are not perceived as gay in those societies.
We see this shift in the recent literary tendency to "queer" platonic male relationships in historical literature. To use a slightly absurd example: are Sam and Frodo in the Lord of the Rings gay? It has been argued by some. (Put "Are Sam and Frodo" into Google and see what pops up on autocomplete to finish that question!)
I think it is the romantic (in the 19th century Wagnerian sense) and conservative worldview of Tolkien in action: the nature of the relationship is that of comrades-in-arms. And in that context certain intimacies that would be intolerable are otherwise not. That is why Sam says that he loves Frodo.
Another example the modern audience often just can't get over, is men who used to sleep together. In the most literal sense of the word. Platonic bed mates. Some guys did this even when other beds were available. Maybe they were cold. But maybe they were just lonely? if some women put on pajamas and have a movie-watching slumber party they probably won't get called lesbians. But men must tread carefully today at least in America for that kind of thing. There is just some mental block in our society with that kind of intimacy between two men. But perhaps not back then. (Or maybe Abraham Lincoln really was gay. But I kind of doubt it.)
Wilde is right on the transition point when it started to be conceivable that a man is actually a self-identifying homosexual and that male intimacy might therefore be coded as homosexual. He played with that ambiguity. And in his case, got burned.
I read it for the first time in my early 20s, and reason I read it was because when I was about 11 years old I saw an old black and white movie of it, and I had nightmares for quite some time (over the ending/fire).
It wasn't the only film to give me nightmares as a child, but it was definitely the first!
For me it is one of those books I re-read every few years, along with LotR, Amber chronicles, the Dune series, etc.
You should read the Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde as a follow up.
The original inspiration for it was Stevenson hearing about respectable pillar of Edinburgh society, William Brodie, being caught as a burglar, stealing to repay his gambling debts. Your social capital in Victorian Britain was based around your outward appearance of respectability and had to be defended to the utmost. If you were outed as a criminal, or as a homosexual, you'd lose every shred of privilege and position.
With that in mind, you can imagine the duality of Dr Jekyll trying to maintain his good standing while licentious Mr Hyde wants to engage in hijinks?
There’s a line in the book I quite liked: “All the interesting people disappear to San Francisco.” Was incredible to me that even back then, SF was known for its homosexual culture. Lord Henry was remarking on where Basil likely had disappeared, so the insinuation was that Basil felt more at home in SF.
I'd place it 5th in my overall favorite books list. It is certainly one which has influenced me deeply and continues to do so, ever since I first read it 13 years ago.
Apparently there are several, significantly different versions of "The picture of Dorian Gray". I'm not sure which one I've read, or which one I should read. Any suggestions?
They're all great, but the 2012 "The Uncensored Picture of Dorian Gray" is the closest to the original script before the editor cut out things that he deemed... checks notes... "too gay".
It restores parts that were cut, and essentially bans chapter 3 and some other digressions on art history that Wilde added as a literary Beard to the footnotes - still there to read, but set in context)
It's not a huge different honestly, but I believe Oscar Wilde would want you to read that version.
I tried reading it when I was younger, and I couldn't get past the first two pages. Hes a wordy motherfuck that Wilde bloke.
However, I did get an audio book version of it, which meant I could actually enjoy and finish it.
THe thing that struck me is that yes the painting is a large part of the book, but so is food. The sheer amount of self hate that was expressed through clothing and food towards the end of the book was surprising to me.
[+] [-] mitchbob|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mitthrowaway2|4 months ago|reply
But it's still a fantastic novel.
[+] [-] retrac|4 months ago|reply
This might not be an entirely faulty perception. Wilde was, I think, aiming for plausible deniability. To hide the homoeroticism amidst the pretense of merely intense platonic love. Because in that time such expressions were often permissible.
I've seen the theory phrased a few ways but here's one take. In sufficiently homophobic societies, the possibility that a man doing something we would perceive as homoerotic, is himself gay, is close to zero. Because no one would ever risk exposure. And so expression of non-sexual intimacies we would see as gay are not perceived as gay in those societies.
We see this shift in the recent literary tendency to "queer" platonic male relationships in historical literature. To use a slightly absurd example: are Sam and Frodo in the Lord of the Rings gay? It has been argued by some. (Put "Are Sam and Frodo" into Google and see what pops up on autocomplete to finish that question!)
I think it is the romantic (in the 19th century Wagnerian sense) and conservative worldview of Tolkien in action: the nature of the relationship is that of comrades-in-arms. And in that context certain intimacies that would be intolerable are otherwise not. That is why Sam says that he loves Frodo.
Another example the modern audience often just can't get over, is men who used to sleep together. In the most literal sense of the word. Platonic bed mates. Some guys did this even when other beds were available. Maybe they were cold. But maybe they were just lonely? if some women put on pajamas and have a movie-watching slumber party they probably won't get called lesbians. But men must tread carefully today at least in America for that kind of thing. There is just some mental block in our society with that kind of intimacy between two men. But perhaps not back then. (Or maybe Abraham Lincoln really was gay. But I kind of doubt it.)
Wilde is right on the transition point when it started to be conceivable that a man is actually a self-identifying homosexual and that male intimacy might therefore be coded as homosexual. He played with that ambiguity. And in his case, got burned.
[+] [-] stevekemp|4 months ago|reply
I read it for the first time in my early 20s, and reason I read it was because when I was about 11 years old I saw an old black and white movie of it, and I had nightmares for quite some time (over the ending/fire).
It wasn't the only film to give me nightmares as a child, but it was definitely the first!
For me it is one of those books I re-read every few years, along with LotR, Amber chronicles, the Dune series, etc.
[+] [-] amiga386|4 months ago|reply
The original inspiration for it was Stevenson hearing about respectable pillar of Edinburgh society, William Brodie, being caught as a burglar, stealing to repay his gambling debts. Your social capital in Victorian Britain was based around your outward appearance of respectability and had to be defended to the utmost. If you were outed as a criminal, or as a homosexual, you'd lose every shred of privilege and position.
With that in mind, you can imagine the duality of Dr Jekyll trying to maintain his good standing while licentious Mr Hyde wants to engage in hijinks?
One such reading of the novella: https://sci-hub.st/10.1525/lal.2012.24.1.21
[+] [-] inglor_cz|4 months ago|reply
Turing even more, as by 1950, the society was much less religious overall and there was less reason to keep homosexuality illegal.
[+] [-] unknown|4 months ago|reply
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[+] [-] paulddraper|4 months ago|reply
Goes to show that some themes of the human condition can be appreciated without being on the nose.
[+] [-] wolfi1|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mgkimsal|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] rkomorn|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] HPMOR|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] jorl17|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] baxtr|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] pigeons|4 months ago|reply
https://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/v/the-confessions-of-dorian...
[+] [-] __alexs|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] gotaran|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] bloak|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] maebert|4 months ago|reply
It restores parts that were cut, and essentially bans chapter 3 and some other digressions on art history that Wilde added as a literary Beard to the footnotes - still there to read, but set in context)
It's not a huge different honestly, but I believe Oscar Wilde would want you to read that version.
It
[+] [-] darshanime|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] some_guy_in_ca|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] stavros|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] KaiserPro|4 months ago|reply
However, I did get an audio book version of it, which meant I could actually enjoy and finish it.
THe thing that struck me is that yes the painting is a large part of the book, but so is food. The sheer amount of self hate that was expressed through clothing and food towards the end of the book was surprising to me.
[+] [-] zyx321|4 months ago|reply