Anytime a company says it "can't" fill positions, it's because they're not paying enough, they're unwilling to train, or both. One those few things in life that really is that simple.
>Anytime a couple says it "can't" find a house, it's because they're not paying enough, they're unwilling to build it themselves, or both. One those few things in life that really is that simple.
It definitely isn't. Here in Germany I could redirect you to a dozen small businesses in the trades I personally know that are starved for young people and that pay better than a decent chunk of degrees, but vocational and blue collar work even here, and this is in my experience even more common in the Anglosphere, is just deemed unattractive by a significant chunk of the workforce.
It's so bad that I know a handful of people who'd even pass the business on because their own kids didn't want to stay in the trades but go to uni.
> “We do not have trade schools,” he said. “We are not investing in educating a next generation of people like my grandfather who had nothing, who built a middle class life and a future for his family.”
So put your money where your mouth is and open your own trade school? If someone as incompetent and corrupt as Falwell can open and operate Liberty University, then why can’t CEO Farley?
> Still, part of the problem for the shortage of manufacturing jobs is the lack of education and training, according to Farley. He noted, for example, learning to take a diesel engine out of a Ford Super Duty truck takes at least five years. The current system is not meeting the standard, he added.
Sounds like Ford's #1 problem is failure to train its engineers, in how to design reasonably maintainable vehicles.
Many modern cars are not designed to be easily worked on. I think the priority is ease/cost of initial assembly, only.
My 2010 Mercedes had headlight bulbs that died frequently. But there was no way for a human to reach in and replace them, without either some special tool or disassembling a bunch of stuff at the front of the car. Just one example. You can find many similar complaints elsewhere.
Is the way the Ford engine is installed standard in some way, or does it take 5 years for a Ford engine, 5 for a GMC, ...? Cuz if it's unique to Ford, it's a Ford problem, not a trade school problem.
Dude is out of his gourd if he believes mechanics are making 6 figures without doing crazy overtime. Just because a job posting is advertised up to 6 figures doesn't mean they will actually offer you such a wage. I live in Michigan and am from a family of mechanics and 95% of mechanics never break $100K ever.
He is also extremely ignorant if he thinks it takes 5 years to learn how to take an engine out of a vehicle, people get PhDs in 5 years, and I could teach someone to remove and replace a certain vehicle's motor in a few days at worst including most of the tips and tricks when things don't go smoothly, after a year I would expect them to be able to take out any motor from any vehicle without guidance. Taking a motor out of a vehicle is one of the easier parts of a mechanic's job, the hard part is being able to diagnose problems without tearing the entire motor out before you know it needs to, or figuring out how to fix a problem without tearing apart every nut and bolt on the car per the official repair, especially as a dealership mechanic where you only get paid a set minimum price for each job no matter how long it takes you in reality. Sure a brand new vehicle might have bolts that spin off in 10 seconds, but the crusty rusted out car from Michigan salted roads might require torches to remove it or time to extract a broken bolt, or drilling and tapping and helicoiling a stripped hole. Even if the hourly labor was free, the parts that either MUST be replaced once bolts are pulled and seals broken, or will inevitably be broken in the process of removal no matter how careful you are, still cost money.
Designing a car that is easy to maintain and diagnose is a lot harder than it seems and manufacturers are incentivized to focus on new sales than maintenance.
Well, then we ended up weird designs that expects you take and engine out to change an alternator or estimates that are way off.
It’s quite dishonest that all the problems of the entire sector is being merged into “nobody wants to work anymore” style conversation with a lot of fine prints.
Mechanics at dealerships or assembly line technicians?
Because there's no way those jobs are 6 figures at the dealerships when automakers and dealers push fixed-fee services and severely underrate the hours required.
I tried looking for these on their careers page and I can’t find what he’s talking about. Regardless I don’t think I’d move to Detroit for this. Even if I enjoyed the trade.
He's talking about mechanics in the dealership network, so I looked in five or six major metro areas, and couldn't find a single example of a six-figure job at 40/hours per week. One promised "up to $12,000/month" at $40/hour -- which works out between 70 and 80 hours a week.
I don't think he's got a firm grip on this market.
Six figure hourly-wage "salaries", as long as you put in the 20 hours overtime every week. He also didn't mention the swing shift going from 2 weeks on 3rd, 2 weeks on 2nd, 2 weeks on 1st, and repeat. We can probably find a bunch of other anti-worker issues if we look into it. He also suggests it takes 5 years of education to learn to take out an engine. You're better off getting a college education in that time. Or you'll be dealing with the same engine for the next 30 years. No future. No advancement, No life.
tharne|3 months ago
gruez|3 months ago
nhumrich|3 months ago
guywithahat|3 months ago
I agree in principle though, the people exist and can be hired
Barrin92|3 months ago
It definitely isn't. Here in Germany I could redirect you to a dozen small businesses in the trades I personally know that are starved for young people and that pay better than a decent chunk of degrees, but vocational and blue collar work even here, and this is in my experience even more common in the Anglosphere, is just deemed unattractive by a significant chunk of the workforce.
It's so bad that I know a handful of people who'd even pass the business on because their own kids didn't want to stay in the trades but go to uni.
canucker2016|3 months ago
HN discussion of related article - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45500699
itopaloglu83|3 months ago
But then everything takes longer, because nothing is realistic and people end up working overtime for free.
TimorousBestie|3 months ago
So put your money where your mouth is and open your own trade school? If someone as incompetent and corrupt as Falwell can open and operate Liberty University, then why can’t CEO Farley?
WarOnPrivacy|3 months ago
I'm guessing it involves some front-end expense - which (like all business expenses) are at odds with shareholder wishes.
bell-cot|3 months ago
Sounds like Ford's #1 problem is failure to train its engineers, in how to design reasonably maintainable vehicles.
mring33621|3 months ago
My 2010 Mercedes had headlight bulbs that died frequently. But there was no way for a human to reach in and replace them, without either some special tool or disassembling a bunch of stuff at the front of the car. Just one example. You can find many similar complaints elsewhere.
WarOnPrivacy|3 months ago
>> He noted, for example, learning to take a diesel engine out of a Ford Super Duty truck takes at least five years.
>> The current system is not meeting the standard, he added.
I fully agree with your opinion .... but this guy's quote is bizarre.
What system is failing to meet the 5-years-to-learn-how-to-remove-one-particular-engine standard?
High school trades? Community college? Private $xx,000 high-debt mechanic school?
None of these are remotely capable of teaching Ford's hyper-narrow specialization. Trying to would be a disaster.
jleyank|3 months ago
AngryData|3 months ago
He is also extremely ignorant if he thinks it takes 5 years to learn how to take an engine out of a vehicle, people get PhDs in 5 years, and I could teach someone to remove and replace a certain vehicle's motor in a few days at worst including most of the tips and tricks when things don't go smoothly, after a year I would expect them to be able to take out any motor from any vehicle without guidance. Taking a motor out of a vehicle is one of the easier parts of a mechanic's job, the hard part is being able to diagnose problems without tearing the entire motor out before you know it needs to, or figuring out how to fix a problem without tearing apart every nut and bolt on the car per the official repair, especially as a dealership mechanic where you only get paid a set minimum price for each job no matter how long it takes you in reality. Sure a brand new vehicle might have bolts that spin off in 10 seconds, but the crusty rusted out car from Michigan salted roads might require torches to remove it or time to extract a broken bolt, or drilling and tapping and helicoiling a stripped hole. Even if the hourly labor was free, the parts that either MUST be replaced once bolts are pulled and seals broken, or will inevitably be broken in the process of removal no matter how careful you are, still cost money.
itopaloglu83|3 months ago
Well, then we ended up weird designs that expects you take and engine out to change an alternator or estimates that are way off.
It’s quite dishonest that all the problems of the entire sector is being merged into “nobody wants to work anymore” style conversation with a lot of fine prints.
delfinom|3 months ago
Because there's no way those jobs are 6 figures at the dealerships when automakers and dealers push fixed-fee services and severely underrate the hours required.
WarOnPrivacy|3 months ago
culopatin|3 months ago
stonogo|3 months ago
I don't think he's got a firm grip on this market.
denuoweb|3 months ago
commandlinefan|3 months ago
Honestly starting to feel the same way about developing software.
pissmeself|3 months ago
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more_corn|3 months ago
xorvoid|3 months ago
starluz|3 months ago
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