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ikety | 3 months ago

I'm interested in what scenarios you don't get this same feeling when writing TS code? I of course agree with Ruby, JS, and Python.

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josephg|3 months ago

One big source of bugs in TS is structural sharing. Like, imagine you have some complex object that needs to be accessed from multiple places. The obvious, high performance way to share that object is to just pass around references wherever you need them. But this is dangerous. It’s easy to later forget that the object is shared, and mutate it in one place without considering the implications for other parts of your code.

I’ve made this mistake in TS more times than I’d like to admit. It gives rise to some bugs that are very tricky to track down. The obvious ways to avoid this bug are by making everything deeply immutable. Or by cloning instead of sharing. Both of these options aren’t well supported by the language. And they can both be very expensive from a performance pov. I don’t want to pay that cost when it’s not necessary.

Typescript is pretty good. But it’s very normal for a TS program to type check but still contain bugs. In my experience, far fewer bugs slip past the rust compiler.

ikety|3 months ago

Appreciate it, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like I've been trained to favor immutability so much in every language that I sometimes forget about these things.

regular_trash|3 months ago

Not parent comment, but TS is generally safe if you have types correct at system borders, but very scary when you don't. Some of the most impactful bugs I've seen are because a type for an HTTP call did not match the structure of real data.

Also, many built in functions do not have sufficient typesafey like Object.entries() for instance

teaearlgraycold|3 months ago

That is an issue with how TS works, but it can be significantly improved upon by using a library to verify the structure of deserialized data. zod is one example, or you could use protobufs. Fundamentally, this is an issue with any programming language. But having your base "struct"-like type be a hashmap leads to more mistakes as it will accept any keys and any values.

criemen|3 months ago

I don't know Rust, and I'm genuinely curious: How does it improve over that problem?

When you call a REST API (or SQL query for that matter), how does it ensure that the data coming back matches the types?

TS allows you to do parse the JSON, cast it into your target type, done (hiding correctness bugs, unless using runtime verification of the object shape, see sibling comment). Does Rust enforce this?

vjerancrnjak|3 months ago

The worst offender is toString which has different types between objects and is everywhere by default.

EE84M3i|3 months ago

What do you mean by "safe" in this context?

o11c|3 months ago

Typescript doesn't even support notions like "unsigned integer". It is not a serious attempt at type-safety; its main claim to fame is "better than raw Javascript" which is not saying much.

MBCook|3 months ago

If you need to run in a JS environment it’s a hell of a lot. It’s a FANTASTIC improvement.

I wouldn’t use it server side or for a client application that doesn’t run in a web browser. That’s not its place, for me.

But I will 100% reach for it every time if I need to run in a JavaScript environment.