> For your small blog with one hundred visitors per month, it's probably the same: "no one will burn their DDoS capabilities on you!"
If this is their core argument for not using CDN, then this post sounds like a terribly bad advice. Hopes and prayers do not make a valid security strategy. Appropriate controls and defenses do. The author seems to be completely missing that it takes only a few bucks to buy DDoS as a service. Sometimes people do DDoS your small blog because some random stranger didn't like something you said somewhere online. Speaking from experience. Very much the reason I'm posting this with a throwaway account. If your website receives DDoS, your hosts will take down your server. Nobody wants to be in this situation even if for a personal, small blog.
If you added up all the outage time caused by DDOS and all the outage time caused by being behind auxiliary services that have their own outages... I wonder which would be larger?
I'm not too worried about someone DDOSing my personal site. Yeah, they could do it. And then what? Who cares?
> Nobody wants to be in this situation even if for a personal, small blog.
I would gladly be in this situation if it otherwise lets me remove a large source of complexity, avoid paying a few bucks, and increasing the avoidable centralization of the Internet on my personal, small blog.
Maybe I'd change my mind if it continues happening, or if I didn't have unlimited traffic (which is a very bad idea for many reasons other than DDoSes for personal sites), but otherwise, enabling Cloudflare for a hypothetical without consequences seems like pretty extreme premature optimization.
Here's your confusion: personal sites don't need a valid security strategy. They don't need nine nines uptime. They don't need CDN, and ability to deploy, etc, etc. That's all (and forgive the origins of the expression but it is the most accurate description) cargo culting. There's no issue if they're down for a couple days. Laugh it off.
Whereas if you put your site behind a defaults of a cloudflare denial of service wall then real human people won't be able to access your site for as long as you use cloudflare. That's much longer and many more actual humans blocked than any DDoS from some script kiddie. Cloudflare is the ultimate denial of service to everyone that doesn't use Chrome or some other corporate browser.
And forget about hosting feeds on your website if you're behind cloudflare. CF doesn't allow feed readers because they're not bleeding edge JS virtual machines.
What's the actual cost to me of my blog being offline for a few hours? Basically nothing. Certainly less than the couple of bucks someone might spend on a DDoS service
Add to that, once an attacker has your server's IP (because it wasn't behind a CDN in the first place), it's basically impossible to fend off the attack unless the attacker is not very bright, or you swap your server's IP.
Genuinely I don't understand how people post under their own name or connect their accounts to their real identities at all. I learned early that my opinion can piss people off (even though I think I'm pretty milquetoast to be honest), and there are people with enough time and hate to make their disagreement with you impact you personally.
I started using a pseudonym about the time my consulting site got taken down by a DDoS attack because I voiced an opinion about a presidential candidate who's name rhymes with Meorge Mush Munior. People are awful.
> Hopes and prayers do not make a valid security strategy
It’s not “hopes and prayers” to actively decide a particular attack vector is unlikely enough that the the costs and risks are not worth it.
My local cafes and bars do not employ bouncers, but the local concert venues and nightclubs do.
All these places want to keep out outside food and drink and avoid violence among patrons. The local cafes and bars decided it’s not worth having a bouncer for that. That’s a valid decision.
Meanwhile the maintainer of Bear Blog - very nearly the poster child for small blogs with 100 visitors per month - recently put up a post talking about how much extra infrastructure it takes to keep the service online in the face of the massive uptick in AI scraper bot traffic we've had over the past few years.
I haven't tried managing my own site in ages, but I get the impression that the modern Internet is pretty much just one big constant DDoS attack, punctuated by the occasional uptick in load when someone decides to do it on purpose instead of out of garden variety apathetic psychopathy.
Cloudflare does both but some providers do one or the other. You can use any CDN no matter if you use Cloudflare or not (shout-out to Bunny CDN btw, very happy with them - they do one thing and do it well)
> Sometimes people do DDoS your small blog because some random stranger didn't like something you said somewhere online.
I've received death threats. Do I engage in charged political commentary on my site? Not really. Just vaguely left-of-centre stuff in a way that I feel moves the discussion forward (and not even that often). The internet is fun: you're instantly connected to every unhinged asshole lunatic in the world.
I wish online discourses didn't feel like engaging with possible shills for corporations as it did during 2000s, or maybe it didn't. Maybe, we became too aware and critical or maybe there is absolutely no honest discourse possible when commerce, political or even ideological agendas are involved. The best stance should one that presents varied solutions to a common problem.
> Sometimes people do DDoS your small blog because some random stranger didn't like something you said somewhere online.
People come with that argument so often. But then one day I was completely done with something and I put out a rant on Reddit in my real name. Hundreds op people disagreed and told me "Why do you do that under your own name?! Are you crazy? This will lead to many problems."
Guess what. This was months ago and nothing happened. Nada. Zero. Null. I have many servers running and nothing was taking down. Maybe one day it will. If that happens then I'll find a fix. It will probably not be a nice day, but it is what it is. The world will keep spinning. I'm done giving in to the fear.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me." -Frank Herbert, Dune
DDoS is not a security issue for a small blog. It's a reliability issue, and reliability probably isn't that important. And to the extent that it is important, it's not at all obvious which choice is going to get me better reliability.
I'm not going to YOLO an actual security issue and, say, use my zip code as the password on a publicly-facing ssh service or something. But DDoS protection? Meh.
And if my blog with a few hundred visitors goes down because of a Clourdflare outage ... so what?
People act as if outages are some solvable problem and each outage should never have happened and we need to act (cloud no cloud, firewall rules, and so on) each time.
Rather I think history has shown this stuff happens and if the impact is terrible ... fine.
If we're talking about putting static assets (like basic websites) on their CDN, or moving your backend to Workers, (etc...) you are by definition moving _away_ from single point-of-failure.
> Maybe that's the core of this message. Face your fears. Put your service on the internet. Maybe it goes down, but at least not by yet another Cloudflare outage.
Well I'd rather have my website going down (along with half the internet) be the concern of a billion dollar corporation with thousands of engineers - than mine.
I administer a PHP website with very little legit traffic per month, but a few thousand pages probably. The bot traffic is crazy. We're not using Cloudflare for that site, but we're using a local static-page cache... and without it, the site simply can't function.
You don't need to be the target of a dDoS to use a CDN.
Also, using CDNs (Fastly via Github pages, not Cloudflare, in this case) once allowed us to be featured in a very large newspaper without worries, extra expenses, or extra work.
Usually it's big actors like Facebook, Azure and OpenAI who bombard my servers without any respect or logic. I need to update my access rules constantly to keep them away (using Cloudflare) Sometimes it's clustered traffic, more classic DDoS, from China, Russia or America. That I could easily filter with the DDos protection from my hosting (which is cheaper than cloudflare anyway)
What should I do if not Cloudflare to block with "complex rules" that is strong enough to survive hundreds of concurrent requests by big companies?
?? It's free, and it protects you from all sorts of nasty things.
I can't think of any reason not to use cloudflare. It's _dead easy_ to set up too.
I can't help but think that the author understands what cloudflare actually does, or just has a poor understanding of what goes on on the internet. Probably a bit of just being in a bad mood about cloudflare being down too.
The problem is, we need to. It’s simply insane how many stupid, malicious requests we get without it, and we honestly are a small, unimportant site.
If we don’t filter all this crap out, our metrics become basically meaningless, and our Data Warehouse, whose analyses we need to do business with our partners, would be one big „shit in, shit out“ travesty.
And on the other hand, becoming non-affected by today’s Cloudflare incident was a single DNS update away, and effective in under a minute.
I’m not saying we are perfectly happy, and I don’t exactly love the Cloudflare bill, but just slapping them in front of our loadbalancer and have them filter out the bad guys has been a good deal so far.
The lesson I learned is it's OK to put your site with Cloudflare. It's not ok to put your DNS on a registrar who is also on Cloudflare. We got locked out because our registrar is also on Cloudlfare, and now I can't even switch DNS to get the site back up. Keep your domain name registrar, DNS service provider and application infrastructure provider separately.
But yeah, if you don't need Cloudflare, like, at all, obviously don't use them. But, who can predict whether they're going to be DDOS-ed in advance? Fact is, most sites are better off with Cloudflare than without.
Until something like this happens, of course, but even then the question of annual availability remains. I tried to ask Claude how to solve this conundrum, but it just told me to allow access to some .cloudflare.com site, so, ehhm, not sure...
I use Cloudflare tunnels to expose lots of small projects to the internet that I host on my home server. I don't want my home internet to be knocked offline because someone decides to hammer my network and knock me offline for a while.
Cloudflare handles caching of static resources, rate limiting, and blocking of bots with very little configuration.
Also, my ISP here in the UK doesn't provide static IP addresses, so Cloudflare allows me to avoid using a dynamic DNS service, and avoid exposing ports on my router.
This is my worry. What is cloudflare exactly? What regulations are they under? Am I and my privacy protected? How much of my privacy do I need to give up for whats essentially part of a protection racket, be it intentional or not. What happens when I use their SSL, can they sniff my packets? What intelligence and law enforcement do they work with? As someone with vulnerable and targeted identities its a lot harder to hand over my autonomy to what's essentially the modern 1980s IBM or whatever. This is a closed for-profit company that exists to maximize shareholder value, not protect me.
Its incredible we took a decentralized model and centralized it with things like cloudflare and social media. I think we need pushback on this somehow, buts hard right now to see how its possible. I think the recent talk about federation has been helpful and with the world falling into right-wing dictatorships, this privacy and decentralization is more important than ever.
I ran a highly trafficked adult website for 18 years. In the early days, CDNs were unattainable for me and I managed my own rudimentary network by hosting bare metal servers in data centres around the world, using geo-ip aware DNS servers to send traffic to the closest data centre to them.
My most significant running expense was bandwidth cost. So I never switched to cloud since the bandwidth costs would have instantly bankrupted me. Cloudflare, on the other hand, was the single most significant development when it came to my bottom line. Adding a basic, $200 / month business account saved me thousands per month on bandwidth + server costs.
DDoS protection was just a nice perk.
Most small websites are hosting with cloud providers these days. If their websites are at all media rich (and most are these days), and those assets can be cached by a CDN ... the cost savings on bandwidth are not marginal. They are often the difference between being able to afford to host your website or not having one at all.
There are, of course, ways to optimize and reduce those expenses without a 3rd party CDN. But if Cloudflare still has their free plans for smaller traffic volumes, it is often a financial decision to use them over your cloud provider's CDN options.
All the people posting all their reasons why they use Cloudflare ("it's free!"/"it's easy!"/"my site won't go down!") makes me realize this apparent arms race is going to effectively result in the total centralization of all web content. Cool. Seems like a great idea to rely on a singular US service rather than diversify the risk across hundreds/thousands of services around the world. What could possibly go wrong?
Oh yeah: If you host behind Cloudflare, you can basically expect your site/service is inaccessible by all of Spain every weekend or so: the government there decided to just completely cut off Cloudflare to stop illegal sports streaming sites. A couple posts about this:
> Most of these sites are not even that big. I expect maybe a few thousand visitors per month.
Incidentally, if you can make a site "static", so far I'm mostly liking AWS CloudFront loaded from S3. After many years serving my site from a series of VPSs/hosters/colo/bedroom. It's fast and inexpensive, and so far perfectly solid.
Deploying consists of updating S3, and then triggering a CloudFront invalidation, which takes several seconds. The two key fragments of my deploy script (not including error checking, etc.), after the Web site generator has spat all the files into a staging directory on my laptop where I can test them as `file:` URLs, are:
The main thing I don't like about it (other than the initial setup wizards having a couple bugs) is that it doesn't automatically map `foo/` URLs to `foo/index.html` S3 objects. The recommended solution was to use AWS Lambda, which I did temporarily, and it works. But when I get a chance, I will see whether I can make my deploy script duplicate S3 `foo/index.html` as S3 `foo/` and/or `foo`, so that I can get rid of the worse kludge of using Lambda. Unless CloudFront offers a feature to do this before then.
Cloudflare is still down and now its been 5+ hours. Having said that, the thing about "if you don't need to" is not that simple. FOr personal sites/blogs, I can agree but then it really doesnt matter for those. For a real business, the value of cloudflare (As centralized as it gets) is the proxy especially against attacks. The other stuff like CDN/Caching etc are bonus on top.
Unless there is a better option, just asking real businesses (no matter how small) to not use cloudflare is not an option.
5+ hours. It's amusing to reflect on all the "leaders" I've seen jumping on people's heads because a single feature of some unknown product was unavailable for 30 minutes.
I get your gripe, but the free protection that Cloudflare offers automatically often far exceeds the effort required to thwart some random script kiddie’s attacks on my client’s Wordpress site. Add easy caching, tunnels, automated certificate management, etc. to that and it’s obvious why a lot of sites use them.
I get it... but you can pry my cloudflare-tunnel from my cold dead hands.
I'm no stranger to hosting things 'the hard way', but I am not going back from my happy casual hosting where I just spin up a docker container, and point the cloudflare tunnel at the local port and opt out of worrying over DDOS, SSL termination and certs, and everything else that goes with it.
With tailscale, I don't even keep port 22 open to the world.
The massive centralisation going through cloudflare, especially their dns, is good reason to reconsider using them. It doesn't matter how good their product or ethos is, 10s of %s of the Internet traffic going through one company is a bad thing for the Internet.
Even my tiny little personal sites got hammered by bots. I was very reluctant, but I feel like I had no choice but to go to Cloudflare. It was the only free option, and for tiny little sites it’s not worth paying for a solution.
[+] [-] throwaway150|4 months ago|reply
If this is their core argument for not using CDN, then this post sounds like a terribly bad advice. Hopes and prayers do not make a valid security strategy. Appropriate controls and defenses do. The author seems to be completely missing that it takes only a few bucks to buy DDoS as a service. Sometimes people do DDoS your small blog because some random stranger didn't like something you said somewhere online. Speaking from experience. Very much the reason I'm posting this with a throwaway account. If your website receives DDoS, your hosts will take down your server. Nobody wants to be in this situation even if for a personal, small blog.
[+] [-] phyzome|4 months ago|reply
I'm not too worried about someone DDOSing my personal site. Yeah, they could do it. And then what? Who cares?
[+] [-] lxgr|4 months ago|reply
I would gladly be in this situation if it otherwise lets me remove a large source of complexity, avoid paying a few bucks, and increasing the avoidable centralization of the Internet on my personal, small blog.
Maybe I'd change my mind if it continues happening, or if I didn't have unlimited traffic (which is a very bad idea for many reasons other than DDoSes for personal sites), but otherwise, enabling Cloudflare for a hypothetical without consequences seems like pretty extreme premature optimization.
[+] [-] superkuh|4 months ago|reply
Here's your confusion: personal sites don't need a valid security strategy. They don't need nine nines uptime. They don't need CDN, and ability to deploy, etc, etc. That's all (and forgive the origins of the expression but it is the most accurate description) cargo culting. There's no issue if they're down for a couple days. Laugh it off.
Whereas if you put your site behind a defaults of a cloudflare denial of service wall then real human people won't be able to access your site for as long as you use cloudflare. That's much longer and many more actual humans blocked than any DDoS from some script kiddie. Cloudflare is the ultimate denial of service to everyone that doesn't use Chrome or some other corporate browser.
And forget about hosting feeds on your website if you're behind cloudflare. CF doesn't allow feed readers because they're not bleeding edge JS virtual machines.
[+] [-] swiftcoder|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] AndroTux|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Loughla|4 months ago|reply
I started using a pseudonym about the time my consulting site got taken down by a DDoS attack because I voiced an opinion about a presidential candidate who's name rhymes with Meorge Mush Munior. People are awful.
[+] [-] eduction|4 months ago|reply
It’s not “hopes and prayers” to actively decide a particular attack vector is unlikely enough that the the costs and risks are not worth it.
My local cafes and bars do not employ bouncers, but the local concert venues and nightclubs do.
All these places want to keep out outside food and drink and avoid violence among patrons. The local cafes and bars decided it’s not worth having a bouncer for that. That’s a valid decision.
[+] [-] bunderbunder|4 months ago|reply
I haven't tried managing my own site in ages, but I get the impression that the modern Internet is pretty much just one big constant DDoS attack, punctuated by the occasional uptick in load when someone decides to do it on purpose instead of out of garden variety apathetic psychopathy.
[+] [-] brightball|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] elAhmo|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] axelthegerman|4 months ago|reply
Cloudflare does both but some providers do one or the other. You can use any CDN no matter if you use Cloudflare or not (shout-out to Bunny CDN btw, very happy with them - they do one thing and do it well)
[+] [-] arp242|4 months ago|reply
I've received death threats. Do I engage in charged political commentary on my site? Not really. Just vaguely left-of-centre stuff in a way that I feel moves the discussion forward (and not even that often). The internet is fun: you're instantly connected to every unhinged asshole lunatic in the world.
[+] [-] jesuswasjew|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] tjwebbnorfolk|4 months ago|reply
True, but they are free and effortless, unlike "appropriate controls and defenses"
[+] [-] wmedrano|4 months ago|reply
Did you mean reliability? At this point I don't care if my server gets DDoS, but may be more convinced by security practices.
[+] [-] huijzer|4 months ago|reply
People come with that argument so often. But then one day I was completely done with something and I put out a rant on Reddit in my real name. Hundreds op people disagreed and told me "Why do you do that under your own name?! Are you crazy? This will lead to many problems."
Guess what. This was months ago and nothing happened. Nada. Zero. Null. I have many servers running and nothing was taking down. Maybe one day it will. If that happens then I'll find a fix. It will probably not be a nice day, but it is what it is. The world will keep spinning. I'm done giving in to the fear.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me." -Frank Herbert, Dune
[+] [-] udev4096|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] pclmulqdq|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] kryogen1c|4 months ago|reply
As you say, the risk is not a temp outage for small users, the risk is your isp or host or whatever disowning you.
[+] [-] troupo|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] wat10000|4 months ago|reply
I'm not going to YOLO an actual security issue and, say, use my zip code as the password on a publicly-facing ssh service or something. But DDoS protection? Meh.
[+] [-] unknown|4 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] duxup|4 months ago|reply
People act as if outages are some solvable problem and each outage should never have happened and we need to act (cloud no cloud, firewall rules, and so on) each time.
Rather I think history has shown this stuff happens and if the impact is terrible ... fine.
[+] [-] zikero|4 months ago|reply
> Maybe that's the core of this message. Face your fears. Put your service on the internet. Maybe it goes down, but at least not by yet another Cloudflare outage.
Well I'd rather have my website going down (along with half the internet) be the concern of a billion dollar corporation with thousands of engineers - than mine.
[+] [-] elondaits|4 months ago|reply
You don't need to be the target of a dDoS to use a CDN.
Also, using CDNs (Fastly via Github pages, not Cloudflare, in this case) once allowed us to be featured in a very large newspaper without worries, extra expenses, or extra work.
[+] [-] herbst|4 months ago|reply
Usually it's big actors like Facebook, Azure and OpenAI who bombard my servers without any respect or logic. I need to update my access rules constantly to keep them away (using Cloudflare) Sometimes it's clustered traffic, more classic DDoS, from China, Russia or America. That I could easily filter with the DDos protection from my hosting (which is cheaper than cloudflare anyway)
What should I do if not Cloudflare to block with "complex rules" that is strong enough to survive hundreds of concurrent requests by big companies?
[+] [-] spoaceman7777|4 months ago|reply
I can't think of any reason not to use cloudflare. It's _dead easy_ to set up too.
I can't help but think that the author understands what cloudflare actually does, or just has a poor understanding of what goes on on the internet. Probably a bit of just being in a bad mood about cloudflare being down too.
[+] [-] ManuelKiessling|4 months ago|reply
If we don’t filter all this crap out, our metrics become basically meaningless, and our Data Warehouse, whose analyses we need to do business with our partners, would be one big „shit in, shit out“ travesty.
And on the other hand, becoming non-affected by today’s Cloudflare incident was a single DNS update away, and effective in under a minute.
I’m not saying we are perfectly happy, and I don’t exactly love the Cloudflare bill, but just slapping them in front of our loadbalancer and have them filter out the bad guys has been a good deal so far.
[+] [-] neya|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] pstation|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mariopt|4 months ago|reply
Self hosting will also bring its own set of problems and costs.
[+] [-] ZeroConcerns|4 months ago|reply
But yeah, if you don't need Cloudflare, like, at all, obviously don't use them. But, who can predict whether they're going to be DDOS-ed in advance? Fact is, most sites are better off with Cloudflare than without.
Until something like this happens, of course, but even then the question of annual availability remains. I tried to ask Claude how to solve this conundrum, but it just told me to allow access to some .cloudflare.com site, so, ehhm, not sure...
[+] [-] saltywhistle|4 months ago|reply
Cloudflare handles caching of static resources, rate limiting, and blocking of bots with very little configuration.
Also, my ISP here in the UK doesn't provide static IP addresses, so Cloudflare allows me to avoid using a dynamic DNS service, and avoid exposing ports on my router.
[+] [-] xacky|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] zoeysmithe|4 months ago|reply
Its incredible we took a decentralized model and centralized it with things like cloudflare and social media. I think we need pushback on this somehow, buts hard right now to see how its possible. I think the recent talk about federation has been helpful and with the world falling into right-wing dictatorships, this privacy and decentralization is more important than ever.
[+] [-] gspencley|4 months ago|reply
My most significant running expense was bandwidth cost. So I never switched to cloud since the bandwidth costs would have instantly bankrupted me. Cloudflare, on the other hand, was the single most significant development when it came to my bottom line. Adding a basic, $200 / month business account saved me thousands per month on bandwidth + server costs.
DDoS protection was just a nice perk.
Most small websites are hosting with cloud providers these days. If their websites are at all media rich (and most are these days), and those assets can be cached by a CDN ... the cost savings on bandwidth are not marginal. They are often the difference between being able to afford to host your website or not having one at all.
There are, of course, ways to optimize and reduce those expenses without a 3rd party CDN. But if Cloudflare still has their free plans for smaller traffic volumes, it is often a financial decision to use them over your cloud provider's CDN options.
[+] [-] amatecha|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] amatecha|4 months ago|reply
https://daniel.es/blog/cloudflare-vs-la-liga/
https://harro.com/2025/06/06/is-blanket-ip-blocking-justifie...
https://cybersecurityadvisors.network/2025/04/15/la-liga-blo...
https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/cloudflar...
[+] [-] neilv|4 months ago|reply
Incidentally, if you can make a site "static", so far I'm mostly liking AWS CloudFront loaded from S3. After many years serving my site from a series of VPSs/hosters/colo/bedroom. It's fast and inexpensive, and so far perfectly solid.
Deploying consists of updating S3, and then triggering a CloudFront invalidation, which takes several seconds. The two key fragments of my deploy script (not including error checking, etc.), after the Web site generator has spat all the files into a staging directory on my laptop where I can test them as `file:` URLs, are:
and then: The main thing I don't like about it (other than the initial setup wizards having a couple bugs) is that it doesn't automatically map `foo/` URLs to `foo/index.html` S3 objects. The recommended solution was to use AWS Lambda, which I did temporarily, and it works. But when I get a chance, I will see whether I can make my deploy script duplicate S3 `foo/index.html` as S3 `foo/` and/or `foo`, so that I can get rid of the worse kludge of using Lambda. Unless CloudFront offers a feature to do this before then.[+] [-] codegeek|4 months ago|reply
Unless there is a better option, just asking real businesses (no matter how small) to not use cloudflare is not an option.
[+] [-] beaker52|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] NorwegianDude|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] stroebs|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] simonw|4 months ago|reply
Running behind something like Cloudflare doesn't just protect against DDoS, it protects against surprise traffic spikes.
If your site ends up on the Hacker News frontpage it's nice for it not to fall over right as people are trying to check it out.
[+] [-] Nihilartikel|4 months ago|reply
I'm no stranger to hosting things 'the hard way', but I am not going back from my happy casual hosting where I just spin up a docker container, and point the cloudflare tunnel at the local port and opt out of worrying over DDOS, SSL termination and certs, and everything else that goes with it.
With tailscale, I don't even keep port 22 open to the world.
[+] [-] ibash|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] dwedge|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Apreche|4 months ago|reply
[+] [-] thejazzman|4 months ago|reply
You’d see those same errors if someone took their own site down while working on it , probably accidentally