[a2tech]

I’m an American and I can safely vouch that myself and most of the people I know deeply believe in the American ideals that have been presented as gospel for decades—fair play, hard work, rule of law, loving our neighbors (regardless of legal status), and to a one, believe that as soon as you swear your oath at the immigration court, you’re an American, regardless of the circumstances of your birth.

The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well. I have hopes for the future, but time will tell.

[embedding-shape]

> and I can safely vouch that myself and most of the people I know

That's great, too bad none of those people sit in positions of power or anywhere near your government, because from the outside for the last two decades or more, those ideals are not visible to us at all, neither when we look at the foreign policy nor internal.

I'm sure the tides will eventually turn, but we're talking decades more likely than years, since it's been turning this direction for decades already, and I don't see it tipping the balance in the other way even today or the near-future. GLHF at the very least, I do hope things get better for everyone.

[m4rtink]

Yeah, that is something I don't get. You can hear all around the Internet "we did not vote of this!" yet you don see any visible reaction to all these bad decisions lately - no protests in the streets, no real attempts to block these things, people resigning rather then implementing bad decisions.

I just don't get it - unless all those ideals were just a show from the start.

[zidad]

If only the US would apply those values to their foreign policy, unfortunately the US voters don't care enough about that.

[pyrale]

> The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well.

The thing the person you're replying to points out is that, while you may be earnest in your comment and representative of a majority of US citizen, that is not how the US as a country has worked for a very long time, and it was possible because you and your fellow citizen were either too ignorant or not involved enough.

I'll simply point to the history of Central and South America as evidence of my claim.

[drysine]

>the American of today does not represent us well

Why did good honest people of the US reelected Bush Jr. after the illegal invasion of Iraq when no WMD was found?

[isr]

Look, we can all acknowledge that there were, and are, many Americans who wish for this to be true. But at no point in America's history did that "many" ever constitute a majority. Or even close to it.

Which is why, from its very inception, the US has employed mass genocide at home, invasions & regime changes in the America's, then post-slavery apartheid at home, with invasions & regime changes in the rest of the world.

That's not anti-American rhetoric. That's just historical fact.

So, commingled with those facts, where does "law, love & fair play" come in. If you're honest, THAT was the propaganda. And the above realities, that was the truth.

The America of today IS the America it has always been. Its just that the propaganda mask can't be reattached with more duct tape. America started by geniciding non-whites at home, and rounding up & dragging non-whites TO America, in chains.

Now it's genociding non-whites abroad (primarily the Middle East), and rounding up & dragging non-whites FROM America, in chains.

When you focus on the common threads throughout American history, and strip away the fluff, you realise ... that's the real America (which still has the largest slave labour force in the world, through indentured workforces via its prison system).

[BrenBarn]

I'm not even sure it was never a majority. I'm not even sure it's not a majority now. It's more that the system is not set up to be good, even if the majority wants it to be.

[BrenBarn]

I think both can be true. The problem is that there are many people who believe as you do, but the system is set up in such way that those people are dissuaded from gaining power and influence, while the most machiavellian and amoral find an easy path.

[AndrewKemendo]

As a seventh generation American, war veteran who has been in public service for 22 of my 25 working years and mixed race person, America has literally never organizationally been any of the things you describe.

We are a nation of selfish, narcissists that have no concept of consistent long lasting care based communities.

What little care we give each other is mediated through transactions or cult based social alignment.

[a2tech]

Any nation made up of human beings is going to be flawed. The way forward is via incremental change and compromise. Forcing societal change does not, and never has, worked.

[NebulaStorm456]

US Plans for China Blockade Continue Taking Shape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqi_cPYiT9c

[a2tech]

The fallacy is believing the country has ever perfectly embodied the principals of its people. Unlike your and others dismissive talk of my 'bright eyed idealism' I and the people that I interact with fully understand the missteps and failures of our country.

That does not stop us from working towards making the nation a better place. I'm stubborn and loud and I talk to politicians and others when I see things that I don't think are right. Maybe (probably) I'm tilting at windmills. But I'm not giving up on what I think the United States should be.

[dizzlewizzle]

>rule of law, loving our neighbors (regardless of legal status)

>The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well.

The system can't represent a contradictory set of ideals.