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itsalwaysgood | 3 months ago

Do you consider an infant to be conscious?

Or electrons?

discuss

order

empath75|3 months ago

i think it's still an open question how "conscious" that infants and newborns are. It really depends on how you define it and it is probably a continuum of some kind.

nomel|3 months ago

> It's probably a continuum of some kind.

This is well documented fact, in the medical and cognitive science fields: humans consciousness fade away as their neurons are reduced/malformed/misfunctioning.

You can trivially demonstrate it in any healthy individual using oxygen starvation.

There's no one neuron that results in any definition of human consciousness, which requires that it's a continuum.

cellular|3 months ago

Pain.

I haven't publicly stated this before now: Consciousness requires the ability to perceive PAIN.

All human learning is based upon the single kernel of pain (vs pleasure).

A newborn is hungry or cold and cried. It learned to cry. It learned to smile. Eventually, delayed gratification lead to less pain (more pleasure).

The rest is human history.

itsalwaysgood|3 months ago

True. There's always going to be uncertainty about this kind of topic.

I think the jist of the article is that we will use whatever definition of consciousness is useful to us, for any given use case

Much the same way treat pigs vs dogs, based on how hungry or cute we feel.

vasco|3 months ago

An infant has phenomenological consciousness.

Electrons make no sense as a question unless I'm missing something.

soganess|3 months ago

As a question???

Do the physical quanta we call electrons experience the phenomenon we poorly define but generally call consciousness?

If you believe consciousness is a result of material processes: Is the thermodynamic behavior of an electron, as a process, sufficient to bestow consciousness in part or in whole?

If you believe it is immaterial: What is the minimum “thing” that consciousness binds to, and is that threshold above or below the electron? This admittedly asks for some account of the “above/below” ordering, but assume the person answering is responsible for providing that explanation.

itsalwaysgood|3 months ago

It makes sense when you try and disprove the question.