We use Lockitron on our offices and it has saved us a lot of trouble. Empirically people are a lot less likely to forget their phone than to forget keys, presumably because you use your phone for so many other things whereas most keys do nothing but get you into a single building.
My problem with solution like this is the centralization. I dont want to give power over my door to any one commercial entity. I am sure people behind this project are all nice and likable. And it looks like really neat solution feature-wise. But I dont like the principle. Centralization is never good. You dont know the future of the companny, but your doors depend on it to certain degree. Plus it is a single point of failure and added security risk.
But then again, I dont use facebook, dropbox or gmail for the same reason. (Instead I use selfhosted solutions.) So I am an unimportant minority. Its a pity that the trend with new solutions is towards use of centralization instead of decetralization, which gave us Internet, email and even parlament democracy. As I sad before, if email were to be invented today it would be single company's project backed by YC that would rule us all.
"Empirically people are a lot less likely to forget their phone than to forget keys,"
That also varies on whether you drive a car or take public transportation.
If you drive, leaving your house requires taking your keys and it becomes a habit. Same with leaving work. If you drove there you need your keys to leave.
A good way around forgetting keys also is a realtor style lockbox either on the door or hidden with a spare key.
Wow, I'm amazed that they got wifi to work in the lock itself, vs. using a low-power thing like Zigbee to a base station with AC power.
Also, BT 4.0 LE is perfect for this -- since there's no NFC in the iPhone 5, I suspect BT 4.0 LE will end up taking the place of NFC for a lot of "heavier duty" NFC applications -- not that the Bluetooth protocol is great or elegant, but it's a lot easier to work with than NFC, and now BT 4.0 LE exists on both major smartphone platforms.
All my earlier criticism of not having a local ACL and local RF communication to the lock, vs. going to/from the Internet, is now resolved.
The only thing they're missing is a BT 4.0 LE dongle (which I've seen on Kickstarter called "hone" http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/690528216/hone-for-iphon... -- you could put that on your keyring and use it as an expensive HID proxcard replacement. Same thing works for electronic leash.
Now all they need to do is support 5-10 locksets in some kind of private/small business network (vs. putting in a HID access control system), for 0-99 users, and they'll be really innovative. Managing a single door with 0-5 people is comparatively easy; managing an office with turnover is a lot harder, and businesses would happily pay $1-2k for a system to cover their doors and employees with a nice LDAP/AD/FB/etc. interface.
Since you can upload your own firmware, it would be entirely possible for a customer to build this.
Gas to run
You making sure everything is well maintained
Expensive vs biking
Auto mechanics needed if your car breaks down
Anyone in your area could easily steal your car or explode it rendering it useless.
Doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me.
Kidding aside, you must not have read very carefully, since it has NFC and Bluetooth as backups. The DDOS scenario would require a targeted attack, and wouldn't render it useless anyways as per the above. The device works for renters who can't change their lock, but still want some convenience.
Yes, it has some drawbacks. But I think it is an incredibly well thought out device that I'm jumping on.
This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.
To be fair (I share some of your hesitance), the old-fashioned key still works, so if for some reason one of these dependencies was unmet, then you're not totally out of luck.
The advantage for me is that I don't have to get my keys out if I'm carrying groceries or one of my kids. The bluetooth receiver means it will open the door automatically for me.
I've been using a MiCasa Verde[1], alongside the compatible KwikSet Deadbolts[2], an android app called Automator to accomplish the same thing. It's actually a little pricier but you get:
a. Remote entry -- unlock your door from afar.
b. A nice home automation system (mine's expanded to control lights and thermostat now)
c. Keypad and key-entry as backups
I love it. Being able to remotely lock and unlock your doors is super handy, whether it be for guests, contractors or what not. But what's really handy? Never worrying about locking yourself out of your house again.
If I could just get rid of my car key, I'd be thrilled.
The integration with other things is a big deal fwiw. I'm currently playing with NFC and doing things like "when I tap my phone on my night stand, make sure all the doors are locked and turn off all the lights except for the bedroom"
We're headed towards the Internet of Things but right now they're all sort of talking with their own software. A house with the Nest thermometer and the Lockitron lock won't be able to execute on the scenario I described above -- and if you're a homeowner you may want to think more long term than investing in one-off solutions for every latest thing a chip goes in to.
Regarding your first point, the video for Lockitron mentioned that you'd be able to remotely open your door from anywhere.
I'm really excited about this -- I've always wanted to do this for my door, but as a renter I can't exactly just change the locks without my landlord being pretty disapproving.
Unikey[1] on Shark Tank last season blew me away, I couldn't wait to see it in action, and be available. This looks like an easier installation process than that, but Unikey has some big names attached to it (Black & Decker).
Can't wait to see this tech take off, good luck guys!
So, do people who use something like this just never lock your bottom handle lock? I live in a busy city and lock both to keep my place secure. I'm not sure I would like just being able to lock the deadbolt but not the handle lock.
Having taken a lock picking course, I can say that one lock is approximately the same security as two - even after 15 minutes of instruction, with the right tools I could unlock most any standard house lock in moments.
Home door locks are a deterrent more than anything else, so I'd opt for convenience.
Looks like a really cool product, but as a note to the marketing department: the product itself looks just a little bit too much like an iPhone. I got confused for a moment, and thought the device was an iPhone with a picture of the deadbolt on it. There's probably a way to make the materials somewhat clearer that the Lockitron is the big square bit, and not the C-shaped mounting adapter.
Right now, the website is down or perhaps cloudflare is having issues.
I did get a look and was going to make a comment (which I wanted to verify) that the site in no way shows that the company had built another product (at least not from a quick look).
Now I can't even get a look at the site. This isn't 1996. Why are people having so many issues with delivering simple reliability to a 1 page website?
I installed a punch code deadbolt on our front door. It has been a life-changing experience. I need neither phone nor keys and never worry about being locked out. I just have to replace the batteries every couple years.
One of the biggest improvements, not offered by the Lockitron, is the lack of needing to fumble in your pockets for anything. If you've got a handful of groceries, it's much easier to shift a bag or two to get a hand free and punch the code than it is to go digging in your pockets.
Cool and interesting idea, but for obvious reasons* I have some slight reluctance with using a service like this for my home. For less valuable targets though -- like a conference room or shared workspace -- this is a really clever solution to sharing keys.
*I hate it when people say that so I'll expand. Simply put, I'm worried about it getting hacked. For instance, could you gain access to someone's wifi and then flash a new image (which includes a rogue key) onto the device?
Basically no commercial locks provide a perfect (or even very good) audit trail facility -- guaranteeing the device isn't tampered with. Even the government/military X09 standard lock (from Kaba-Mas; it's a pretty awesome self-powered combination lock) can be forced, then replaced with a new lock with a faked serial number and internally trojaned electronics. You could detect this on internal destructive inspection later, but you might even be able to hack the electronics with self-deleting firmware.
The standard for secure facilities is 24x7 monitoring and roving patrols which are frequent enough to prevent defeating the lock/door initially. If it takes 1h to cut through a vault door, and you do patrols every 15 minutes, it doesn't matter as much that once you compromise the door, you can subvert the lock for future access.
That said, there's more potential to make an electronic locking system (and seal/tamper evidence) really secure than there is to make a mechanical keylock secure -- keylocks are basically deprecated for even moderately high security, and mechanical combination locks for high security -- the future is all electronic systems with online checking of credentials. A system like lockitron has a lot of room to grow.
Sadly, the lock on your front door is most likely so easy to break, a thief wouldn't waste time trying to hack anything but the keyhole. I learned how to make and use a bump key from YouTube, practiced on my own front door and after a couple of hours could consistently spring the lock with a few whacks (seconds).
The weaker component is the (still available as a backup entry method) keyhole. A year ago, my neighbor locked herself out. I found out that she also had a Schlage lock and figured I'd try to help. After finding my disused bump key, I had sprung her lock after about twenty whacks. My total experience was two hours of practice three years ago. I don't consider myself to be uniquely skilled here.
Personally, I'd prefer a mechanism that would allow me to eliminate the key entirely. I'd rather live with the risk of battery drain/malfunction/phone loss.
> We won’t charge your card until your Lockitron is ready
Interesting.. so you don't even need the money for the first production run, pure crowd-hype marketing. Also very ballsy of YC to sidestep kickstarter like this.. although i suppose 1000 pre-sales isn't huge.
As for the product, some nice feature improvements over v1.0, although i'm not a fan of the new plasticy design-- i would not want to see that thing on my door unless I had to, for any price.
i think this is quite smart. it's not just the hype, but similar to app.net, it's guaranteeing there is a minimum threshold of demand.
what do you mean by 'ballsy to sidestep kickstarter.' has kickstarter become some kind of sole-arbiter of product development? FWIW, if this style of e-commerce continues, someone should develop the API for this/app.net type of sales instead of each building the billing system from scratch.
We used Lockitron at the Cloudkick office. Super convenient, as it let anyone at the office buzz a guest/delivery through our outer door without leaving their desk. Also awesome: the ability to give visitors temporary access without having to keep track of making keys, ensuring they're returned, blah blah blah. Lockitron eliminated the dumb, day-to-day-headache-type-stuff involved in getting people in and out of our space.
Is this a neat idea? Sure. But it's nowhere near $150 worth of value. (And, based on their "limited time" copy, it's likely going to rise to a more egregious price in the future.) I'm actually dumbstruck that they've sold 2500 of these. Admittedly, not having leave your couch to lock up or being able to check the status of your locks remotely is by all means a nice offering, but for the price, it's just not worth it.
Incidentally, this is also just a workaround. It's a hack. It's likely not to work in all homes or with all locks.
Moreover, this thing will likely look out of place and fairly undesirable on most doors, especially on older buildings.
An actual installable lock would be incredibly more compelling due to the fact that it will be less bulky and intrusive.
Great idea. However, I can't help but think that if Lockitron gains meaningful adoption, the various organized-crime groups operating on the web will try to hack the company's backend retrieve lock usage and location data or even gain the ability remotely to open customer locks. (Criminals already pay for stolen credit card information on the web; they would readily pay for lock usage and location data too. How valuable would it be for thieves to know when other people in their own city leave their homes?)
I would want to understand how Lockitron might use and secure my lock-usage, location, and other personal information before using the device and service to lock anything important, like my office or my house.
Credit cards can be used by any thief, hacking tools cannot. A Lockitron hack tool would likely be more in the realm of Metasploit. I'm not saying there won't be hackers/thieves who could do it, just comparing to stolen credit cards is silly.
It's pretty obvious that more and more things are converging to the phone. We've already seen how modern smartphones have markets like the point-and-shoot camera and portable music player. It makes sense to carry around one device that does as much as possible. And I love the extension of the smartphone into these home automation areas (though I realize locks have a significantly greater market than just that). What troubles me right now is the fracturing, but that's inevitable in emerging markets. It would just be nice to have a really great product line that I could use to unlock deadbolts, open my garage door, automate my lights, control switches / outlets, program my thermostat, etc.
When I saw that this thing fits over my existing deadbolt two things came to mind and in this order:
1. Wow, that device must have a lot of torque as many deadbolts, mine for example, actually requires some effort to turn, either to lock or unlock. This resistance is caused mainly by the springiness of the weather stripping which pushes back against the door when it is closed.
2. Sometimes, when sunlight falls upon—and heats—the door I need to push or pull slightly on the door in order to turn the deadbolt at all. The door is not dimensionally stable and deadbolt alignment changes. This makes me think that the system would not be reliable. I know my door and deadbolt are not unique in this regard.
[+] [-] pg|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] urza|13 years ago|reply
But then again, I dont use facebook, dropbox or gmail for the same reason. (Instead I use selfhosted solutions.) So I am an unimportant minority. Its a pity that the trend with new solutions is towards use of centralization instead of decetralization, which gave us Internet, email and even parlament democracy. As I sad before, if email were to be invented today it would be single company's project backed by YC that would rule us all.
[+] [-] larrys|13 years ago|reply
That also varies on whether you drive a car or take public transportation.
If you drive, leaving your house requires taking your keys and it becomes a habit. Same with leaving work. If you drove there you need your keys to leave.
A good way around forgetting keys also is a realtor style lockbox either on the door or hidden with a spare key.
[+] [-] s_henry_paulson|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] htmltablesrules|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdl|13 years ago|reply
Also, BT 4.0 LE is perfect for this -- since there's no NFC in the iPhone 5, I suspect BT 4.0 LE will end up taking the place of NFC for a lot of "heavier duty" NFC applications -- not that the Bluetooth protocol is great or elegant, but it's a lot easier to work with than NFC, and now BT 4.0 LE exists on both major smartphone platforms.
All my earlier criticism of not having a local ACL and local RF communication to the lock, vs. going to/from the Internet, is now resolved.
The only thing they're missing is a BT 4.0 LE dongle (which I've seen on Kickstarter called "hone" http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/690528216/hone-for-iphon... -- you could put that on your keyring and use it as an expensive HID proxcard replacement. Same thing works for electronic leash.
Now all they need to do is support 5-10 locksets in some kind of private/small business network (vs. putting in a HID access control system), for 0-99 users, and they'll be really innovative. Managing a single door with 0-5 people is comparatively easy; managing an office with turnover is a lot harder, and businesses would happily pay $1-2k for a system to cover their doors and employees with a nice LDAP/AD/FB/etc. interface.
Since you can upload your own firmware, it would be entirely possible for a customer to build this.
[+] [-] trotsky|13 years ago|reply
anyone in the area could easily ddos off your wireless more or less permanently by spamming disconnect.
doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me.
whats the problem with a more traditional (read local) keyless approach? door too thick?
[+] [-] eggbrain|13 years ago|reply
Doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me.
Kidding aside, you must not have read very carefully, since it has NFC and Bluetooth as backups. The DDOS scenario would require a targeted attack, and wouldn't render it useless anyways as per the above. The device works for renters who can't change their lock, but still want some convenience.
Yes, it has some drawbacks. But I think it is an incredibly well thought out device that I'm jumping on.
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|13 years ago|reply
> (...)
> their datacenter
> their website software
This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.
[+] [-] paulgerhardt|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apawloski|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] run4yourlives|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nollidge|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xutopia|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cjoh|13 years ago|reply
a. Remote entry -- unlock your door from afar. b. A nice home automation system (mine's expanded to control lights and thermostat now) c. Keypad and key-entry as backups
I love it. Being able to remotely lock and unlock your doors is super handy, whether it be for guests, contractors or what not. But what's really handy? Never worrying about locking yourself out of your house again.
If I could just get rid of my car key, I'd be thrilled.
[1]http://micasaverde.com/ [2]http://amzn.to/QGn2Im
[+] [-] cjoh|13 years ago|reply
We're headed towards the Internet of Things but right now they're all sort of talking with their own software. A house with the Nest thermometer and the Lockitron lock won't be able to execute on the scenario I described above -- and if you're a homeowner you may want to think more long term than investing in one-off solutions for every latest thing a chip goes in to.
[+] [-] eggbrain|13 years ago|reply
I'm really excited about this -- I've always wanted to do this for my door, but as a renter I can't exactly just change the locks without my landlord being pretty disapproving.
[+] [-] cwe|13 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.unikeytech.com/
[+] [-] psychotik|13 years ago|reply
http://consumer.schlage.com/Products/Pages/category-landing....
[+] [-] klinquist|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bluetidepro|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plusbryan|13 years ago|reply
Home door locks are a deterrent more than anything else, so I'd opt for convenience.
[+] [-] RandallBrown|13 years ago|reply
I also have an RFID fob to get in my building and I need to type a code in to my elevator to get to my floor, so I'm not too worried about it.
[+] [-] rflrob|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] larrys|13 years ago|reply
I did get a look and was going to make a comment (which I wanted to verify) that the site in no way shows that the company had built another product (at least not from a quick look).
Now I can't even get a look at the site. This isn't 1996. Why are people having so many issues with delivering simple reliability to a 1 page website?
[+] [-] tylerhowarth|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] MicahWedemeyer|13 years ago|reply
One of the biggest improvements, not offered by the Lockitron, is the lack of needing to fumble in your pockets for anything. If you've got a handful of groceries, it's much easier to shift a bag or two to get a hand free and punch the code than it is to go digging in your pockets.
[+] [-] apawloski|13 years ago|reply
*I hate it when people say that so I'll expand. Simply put, I'm worried about it getting hacked. For instance, could you gain access to someone's wifi and then flash a new image (which includes a rogue key) onto the device?
[+] [-] rdl|13 years ago|reply
The standard for secure facilities is 24x7 monitoring and roving patrols which are frequent enough to prevent defeating the lock/door initially. If it takes 1h to cut through a vault door, and you do patrols every 15 minutes, it doesn't matter as much that once you compromise the door, you can subvert the lock for future access.
That said, there's more potential to make an electronic locking system (and seal/tamper evidence) really secure than there is to make a mechanical keylock secure -- keylocks are basically deprecated for even moderately high security, and mechanical combination locks for high security -- the future is all electronic systems with online checking of credentials. A system like lockitron has a lot of room to grow.
[+] [-] schiffern|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mdip|13 years ago|reply
The weaker component is the (still available as a backup entry method) keyhole. A year ago, my neighbor locked herself out. I found out that she also had a Schlage lock and figured I'd try to help. After finding my disused bump key, I had sprung her lock after about twenty whacks. My total experience was two hours of practice three years ago. I don't consider myself to be uniquely skilled here.
Personally, I'd prefer a mechanism that would allow me to eliminate the key entirely. I'd rather live with the risk of battery drain/malfunction/phone loss.
[+] [-] catch23|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] polshaw|13 years ago|reply
Interesting.. so you don't even need the money for the first production run, pure crowd-hype marketing. Also very ballsy of YC to sidestep kickstarter like this.. although i suppose 1000 pre-sales isn't huge.
As for the product, some nice feature improvements over v1.0, although i'm not a fan of the new plasticy design-- i would not want to see that thing on my door unless I had to, for any price.
[+] [-] arkonaut|13 years ago|reply
what do you mean by 'ballsy to sidestep kickstarter.' has kickstarter become some kind of sole-arbiter of product development? FWIW, if this style of e-commerce continues, someone should develop the API for this/app.net type of sales instead of each building the billing system from scratch.
[+] [-] tripngroove|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codinghorror|13 years ago|reply
It could be more clear that the lockitron does two very interesting things, I had to watch the video to figure them out:
- knock detection via microphone so you know someone is at the door (awesome)
- auto-unlock based on nearby phone presence (presumably bluetooth) so you can just walk into your house.
If it works like it's supposed to, this is seriously great.
[+] [-] stretchwithme|13 years ago|reply
And when I actually do want to open it remotely, I get a call with a code I can enter. In other words, some sort of 2 step authentication.
And I want to be notified by the app every time that door opens if I am not using the app right then to open it.
[+] [-] ruswick|13 years ago|reply
Incidentally, this is also just a workaround. It's a hack. It's likely not to work in all homes or with all locks.
Moreover, this thing will likely look out of place and fairly undesirable on most doors, especially on older buildings.
An actual installable lock would be incredibly more compelling due to the fact that it will be less bulky and intrusive.
[+] [-] cs702|13 years ago|reply
I would want to understand how Lockitron might use and secure my lock-usage, location, and other personal information before using the device and service to lock anything important, like my office or my house.
[+] [-] watty|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ssharp|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Wistar|13 years ago|reply
1. Wow, that device must have a lot of torque as many deadbolts, mine for example, actually requires some effort to turn, either to lock or unlock. This resistance is caused mainly by the springiness of the weather stripping which pushes back against the door when it is closed.
2. Sometimes, when sunlight falls upon—and heats—the door I need to push or pull slightly on the door in order to turn the deadbolt at all. The door is not dimensionally stable and deadbolt alignment changes. This makes me think that the system would not be reliable. I know my door and deadbolt are not unique in this regard.